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  • 1861navy

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    Mar 16, 2013
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    I was in MMSF today looking for chants when a conservation officer came through with his dog. I thought nothing of it greeted them both, and as I was about to ask him what's going on he asked what I was doing. I replied, " Im hunting chants, what are you up to? Looking for troublemakers?". He chuckled and replied, " Yeah. Hey do you mind if I search you and your bag?" My response was " I don't mind but may I ask why?" "Just to see what's in it and make sure your not digging ginseng." He said.
    As I'm opening my bag I say, " I still don't understand, I told you what I was doing." He replies, "Just to see what's in it." "OK" I say as I go through the like 8-9 things in my bag. After going through it he asks to search my car. I ask, "what reason do you have to search my car, doesn't everything check out?" He replies, " well, what's with the little shovel in your car?" " You mean hand trowel? Its from planting flowers at my GMA's yesterday. " I say. He asked " so you haven't been digging anything out here with it?" Told him, "No, I already told you what I'm doing, and besides it's illegal to dig in the soil here isn't it?" He replies, "it is, so if you don't mind can I see what's in your car?" "Well I'm going there now, so okay. Though I still don't see a reason why?" Again he says, "just to make sure you don't have any ginseng."
    We go to my car and go through the few things in it, and after wards he says " I appreciate your cooperation, here have a good day." As he sort of puts his head down, I say, "You too." And i get in my car. I've spent and still do spend loads of time there and never had this happen before, so it was a surprise to me.

    So I ask, can a conservation officer just up and search you for walking/ mushroom hunting on state property during ginseng season? Does a trowel in a car give probable cause to search?
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
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    Oct 13, 2010
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    1. You where looking for Chants? Like the songs of Gregorian Monks?
    2. Digging up ginseng is illegal?
    3. CO's have a lot of power when it comes to searching.
     

    T.Lex

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    Mar 30, 2011
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    So I ask, can a conservation officer just up and search you for walking/ mushroom hunting on state property during ginseng season? Does a trowel in a car give probable cause to search?
    Because you consented, we may never know. :)

    Actually, the answer is that they probably don't need PC in this situation. First, it has been awhile, but by going into the park, you probably consented to those kinds of searches. Second, the officer isn't required to believe you. You admitted you were "hunting chants" and you had the tools to dig for ginseng, so he probably had a reasonable articulable suspicion for a brief detention and limited search.
     

    ATM

    will argue for sammiches.
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    Jul 29, 2008
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    I'm still not sure why anyone would ever consent to a search.

    If they have adequate reason to search, they won't need your consent to do it.
     

    1861navy

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    Mar 16, 2013
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    1. You where looking for Chants? Like the songs of Gregorian Monks?
    2. Digging up ginseng is illegal?
    3. CO's have a lot of power when it comes to searching.

    1: lol, that would be pleasing in the woods.
    2: on state property yes, digging any plant is illegal.
    3: I know they have a bit of power, just not sure where it stops.

    Because you consented, we may never know. :)

    Actually, the answer is that they probably don't need PC in this situation. First, it has been awhile, but by going into the park, you probably consented to those kinds of searches. Second, the officer isn't required to believe you. You admitted you were "hunting chants" and you had the tools to dig for ginseng, so he probably had a reasonable articulable suspicion for a brief detention and limited search.

    I consented mainly to keep things from getting uncomfortable, will try to find MMSF rules on searches when I get on my computer later. I guess my confusion kind of rests with the trowel, the SF office recommends burying human feces 6" deep. Granted, mine was in my car, but that seems just kind messed up to recommend a tool that makes you suspect for search. I'm not upset about the incident, just surprised and curious.
     

    yote hunter

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    Dec 27, 2013
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    A C.O. has more power then a regular LEO does and even more so in a state park... You did the right thing even if you felt like it was wrong.. You had nothing to hide so all is well , just a little butt burn... Hope you found some Chant's and made it all worth while ?
     

    Dirtebiker

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    Feb 13, 2011
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    Greenwood
    A C.O. has more power then a regular LEO does and even more so in a state park... You did the right thing even if you felt like it was wrong.. You had nothing to hide so all is well , just a little butt burn... Hope you found some Chant's and made it all worth while ?
    Bull:poop:!
    he did the right thing?
    Whether or not the C.O. has the authority to search, he didn't have to consent! I wouldn't!
    If he doesn't need permission, he'll search anyway, right?
     

    Fargo

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    Mar 11, 2009
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    In a state of acute Pork-i-docis
    Because you consented, we may never know. :)

    Actually, the answer is that they probably don't need PC in this situation. First, it has been awhile, but by going into the park, you probably consented to those kinds of searches. Second, the officer isn't required to believe you. You admitted you were "hunting chants" and you had the tools to dig for ginseng, so he probably had a reasonable articulable suspicion for a brief detention and limited search.

    Other than a terry frisk, what search does reasonable suspicion justify?
     

    Yeah

    Master
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    Dec 3, 2009
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    Dillingham, AK
    The chanterelles are going strong at my place right now. I landed in IN Thursday afternoon and had a bagful before sundown. How are they at Morgan Monroe?

    On the search front, uncomfortable is your friend and you should withhold consent under all circumstances.
     

    1861navy

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    Mar 16, 2013
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    A C.O. has more power then a regular LEO does and even more so in a state park... You did the right thing even if you felt like it was wrong.. You had nothing to hide so all is well , just a little butt burn... Hope you found some Chant's and made it all worth while ?

    I found a few old ones, none worth picking. However there were some coming in strong, maybe next week?

    The chanterelles are going strong at my place right now. I landed in IN Thursday afternoon and had a bagful before sundown. How are they at Morgan Monroe?

    On the search front, uncomfortable is your friend and you should withhold consent under all circumstances.

    Chants are meh. A few dried up but some small ones coming in.

    GROSS!!!!
    :drill::blahblah::poop:
    Lol, this ****s deep man.
     

    NHT3

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    It's my understanding that a CO is the only LEO in the State that has the power to arrest the Governor. They do wield a pretty big stick but it seems to me with everything else that is going on in the world his time may have been better spent by doing something other than rousting you because he thought you might be digging some roots. Maybe I just don't understand how important Ginseng is in the big picture. :)Just my .02
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    Fargo

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    In a state of acute Pork-i-docis
    They have some federal authority in the areas of fish and game, which allows them to charge some cases in federal court may be what they are referring too....

    No one charges anything in fed court except the US Atty's office and the other DOJ prosecutors, normally via grand jury indictment. CO's can refer federal FWS offenses to them, but any state LEO can refer a federal offense to them so I don't know that that is an exceptional power.
     

    yote hunter

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    What powers does a CO have above those of any other LEO?

    The last time I checked, they "C.O.'s" still had the right to enter either a residence, or private property, without a warrant, on reasonable suspicion, ie, a reliable tip, observing an illegal act, surveillance, tailing a suspected violator. vs a LEO who has to have a warrant...
     

    Fargo

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    In a state of acute Pork-i-docis
    The last time I checked, they "C.O.'s" still had the right to enter either a residence, or private property, without a warrant, on reasonable suspicion, ie, a reliable tip, observing an illegal act, surveillance, tailing a suspected violator. vs a LEO who has to have a warrant...

    Oh, many CO's believe they have that power and are more than happy to tell you all about it. The problem is I'm yet to run across a judge or prosecutor who agrees and I've seen a number of these cases in court.

    The 4th Amendment applies to all LEOs, it does not except CO's.

    State statutes do not trump the US or IN Constitution.
     

    yote hunter

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    Also LEO's are either city, county or state LOE's, as to where C.O.'s are state wide ... Most are just over districts but can be called all over the state and have the same arrest rights as a LEO but will call a LEO for traffic/drug violation ..
     
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