LTCH on your person

[eldirector]

Well, Chip may be right.

In another thread, I was admonished for suggesting that one need not keep their LTCH on their person when carrying a handgun. IN Code was changed recently and DROPPED that language. Previous language was "in possession of" and now reads "shall not carry....without being licensed". It is also (somewhat) common knowledge that LE will "call in" your information to check your LTCH status, even if you present them with your pink card.

So, I figured I would ask the Indiana State Police via their email address: FirearmsQuestions@isp.IN.gov

The question:
Is one required to carry their LTCH on their person when carrying a handgun?

Their Answer:
Yes just like your driver’s license.

I suppose one day I will be a test case for this, as I routinely carry a handgun without having my wallet (or any form of ID) with me.

 

[level0]

Well, the police will do what they do, and you got their answer, but it's not illegal to not have your LTCH on you - clearly there is no language in the law that says otherwise. It *is* a person's burden to prove they are licensed, which a person may have to do in court if they cannot produce when asked.

 

[lonehoosier]

Well, Chip may be right.

In another thread, I was admonished for suggesting that one need not keep their LTCH on their person when carrying a handgun. IN Code was changed recently and DROPPED that language. Previous language was "in possession of" and now reads "shall not carry....without being licensed". It is also (somewhat) common knowledge that LE will "call in" your information to check your LTCH status, even if you present them with your pink card.

So, I figured I would ask the Indiana State Police via their email address: FirearmsQuestions@isp.IN.gov

The question:
Is one required to carry their LTCH on their person when carrying a handgun?

Their Answer:
Yes just like your driver’s license.

I suppose one day I will be a test case for this, as I routinely carry a handgun without having my wallet (or any form of ID) with me.

And my follow-up question would be, would you please state the law that says I must carry my LTCH.

 

[chezuki]

The words "in your possession" were removed from the code a few years ago. While you are not legally required to have the license on you, carrying without a license is a crime and the burden of proof falls on you the show you're carrying legally.

 

[SteveM4A1]

And my follow-up question would be, would you please state the law that says I must carry my LTCH.

Yup. It is sad that the ISP doesn't even know their own laws

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Required: No.
Encouraged: Yes.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...t-disarmed-me-subway-lectured-took-my-dl.html

 

[chipbennett]

To be fair, I merely stated that context should be applied to your original assertion. While in the end you will be exonerated, some may find the degree of burden more than they wish to encounter in the process. Sure, any potential charges against you will be dropped, but it will cost you a trip to the courthouse at a minimum, and potentially time in jail, confiscation of your firearm, etc.

While people who are intimately familiar with the carry laws in Indiana can understand and debate the finer statutory points, people who are new to carry in Indiana may be emboldened to act in a manner that will incur a cost that they would not have willingly paid, if they had acted with full information.

 

[lonehoosier]

Yup. It is sad that the ISP doesn't even know their own laws

Guy Relford has a radio show on WIBC and he talked about this pacifically, that you do not have to carry your license.

Checkout hes podcasts. The Gun Guy Show | 93.1 WIBC

 

[Cameramonkey]

Required: No.
Encouraged: Yes.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...t-disarmed-me-subway-lectured-took-my-dl.html

Or in my case, even having my Larry on me wasnt enough... He still insisted on calling it in. I cant imagine his reaction if I couldnt even begin to prove my gun was carried legally. Instead of waiting in my car for 20 minutes for him to not get a callback from ISP would have probably instead have been a ride downtown in matching bracelets to sort it all out knowing that jackwagon. (He also believed that a wrong address on the card (not in the database mind you) was grounds for arrest)

With all more and more people carrying, officers really need more training on what is and isnt legal.

I thank God for the awesome LEOs we have here on INGO who know their stuff.

 

[BADWOLF]

Well, the police will do what they do, and you got their answer, but it's not illegal to not have your LTCH on you - clearly there is no language in the law that says otherwise. It *is* a person's burden to prove they are licensed, which a person may have to do in court if they cannot produce when asked.

If the wording of IC has changed then the enforcement of that code has to change to match it " RIGHT "?

 

[TheSpark]

It is not illegal to carry without your license. However, the burden to prove your are exempt from the law barring anyone from carrying a handgun is on you. In other words, a cranky anti-gun cop could refuse to lookup your license and haul you to jail for carrying a handgun without a license. Once at jail and it is proven you are licensed however they must release you immediately and destroy all records of your arrest.

So is it illegal? No.
Is it required? No.
Can you be arrested? Yes.

 

[PappyD]

It is not illegal to carry without your license. However, the burden to prove your are exempt from the law barring anyone from carrying a handgun is on you. In other words, a cranky anti-gun cop could refuse to lookup your license and haul you to jail for carrying a handgun without a license. Once at jail and it is proven you are licensed however they must release you immediately and destroy all records of your arrest.

I have the old "pink paper" version of the LTCH. When it was issued I went to Kinko's and made multiple copies on matching pink paper. Laminated all of them. I have the license in multiple vehicles, rangebags, safe, and in my wallet. In my car the license is with my registration and proof of insurance. I think of it as a primary piece of ID, even without a picture. It goes with me just like my driver's license.

 

[ATM]

Just another example showing that ISP is rarely an accurate source for answers to questions of law.

 

[TheSpark]

Just another example showing that ISP is rarely an accurate source for answers to questions of law.

At the same time this is probably a good example of why you are probably better off just keeping your paper on you. Even a gun friendly cop may not be aware that you don't have to have it on you and then arrest you.

Either way, like I said the law actually puts the burden of proof in this regard on you. So, although not illegal to carry without it you probably should unless you want to take the risk of getting an introductory tour of your local jail.

 

[ATM]

...Even a gun friendly cop may not be aware that you don't have to have it on you and then arrest you...

Good cops don't just arrest people for unfounded double negative assumptions - gun friendly or not - but, I agree with the point that carrying your own means of proof to avoid the possibility of such a nuisance arrest would be wise.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I would wonder if one was arrested by a local officer (not ISP) for Carrying Without a License (CWOL), specifically because the officer refused to look up the info to prove licensure, would this run afoul of IC 35-47-11.1 (Local Regulation of Firearms), the preemption statute?

I understand that the burden of proof of legality is on the person carrying, but the means of doing so is not in his control, if the license is not on his person. By way of example, I've paid my fee to the state to be allowed to drive my car on public roadways. If my license is stolen (in my wallet, by a mugger, let's say) am I committing a crime to drive to the BMV to have a new one issued? or am I still licensed, just without the proof of it on me?

Likewise, I am licensed to carry, so I'm never CWOL in Indiana, even with the little paper sitting at home in the safe, rather than on my person. I think ISP gave the wrong answer, according to the law, and should probably be told this so they can amend the answer when the next guy writes in, rather than disseminating bad info.

As for the locals, I'm thinking all it will take will be for someone to be arrested on a non-crime, (if indeed CWOL as a charge when licensure can be proven is a non-crime) would be for the arrestee to then file a lawsuit and be paid treble damages.

Or we could all write our representatives and senators and get Constitutional Carry passed in Indiana and remove all of these arguments. How many have written? How many have written more than once?

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Vigilant]

Guy Relford has a radio show on WIBC and he talked about this pacifically, that you do not have to carry your license.

Checkout hes podcasts. The Gun Guy Show | 93.1 WIBC

Well that said, if he talked about it atlantically, would it make a difference?

 

[CPT Nervous]

You don't need to carry your driver's license either, but it makes things easier.

Give your name, DOB, SSN, I can pull up your BMV info, including your photo. Could be a host of reasons you don't have it. Forgot it, lost it, whatever. If your license comes back valid, and you are who you say you are, I have no issues.

Carrying your LTCH or your LTOMV as it were, simply makes your life easier.

 

[jamil]

Well, Chip may be right.

In another thread, I was admonished for suggesting that one need not keep their LTCH on their person when carrying a handgun. IN Code was changed recently and DROPPED that language. Previous language was "in possession of" and now reads "shall not carry....without being licensed". It is also (somewhat) common knowledge that LE will "call in" your information to check your LTCH status, even if you present them with your pink card.

So, I figured I would ask the Indiana State Police via their email address: FirearmsQuestions@isp.IN.gov

The question:
Is one required to carry their LTCH on their person when carrying a handgun?

Their Answer:
Yes just like your driver’s license.

I suppose one day I will be a test case for this, as I routinely carry a handgun without having my wallet (or any form of ID) with me.

Just another example showing that ISP is rarely an accurate source for answers to questions of law.

Eh, don't worry about keeping your permission slip with you. It'll all get sorted out. Eventually.

I would wonder if one was arrested by a local officer (not ISP) for Carrying Without a License (CWOL), specifically because the officer refused to look up the info to prove licensure, would this run afoul of IC 35-47-11.1 (Local Regulation of Firearms), the preemption statute?

I understand that the burden of proof of legality is on the person carrying, but the means of doing so is not in his control, if the license is not on his person. By way of example, I've paid my fee to the state to be allowed to drive my car on public roadways. If my license is stolen (in my wallet, by a mugger, let's say) am I committing a crime to drive to the BMV to have a new one issued? or am I still licensed, just without the proof of it on me?

Likewise, I am licensed to carry, so I'm never CWOL in Indiana, even with the little paper sitting at home in the safe, rather than on my person. I think ISP gave the wrong answer, according to the law, and should probably be told this so they can amend the answer when the next guy writes in, rather than disseminating bad info.

As for the locals, I'm thinking all it will take will be for someone to be arrested on a non-crime, (if indeed CWOL as a charge when licensure can be proven is a non-crime) would be for the arrestee to then file a lawsuit and be paid treble damages.

Or we could all write our representatives and senators and get Constitutional Carry passed in Indiana and remove all of these arguments. How many have written? How many have written more than once?

Blessings,
Bill

I wouldn't discount the possibility that they know the law and just choose to say what they said.

 

[SSGSAD]

Guy Relford has a radio show on WIBC and he talked about this pacifically, that you do not have to carry your license.

Checkout hes podcasts. The Gun Guy Show | 93.1 WIBC

THANKS, I needed THAT !!!!!