LTCH on your person

[BehindBlueI's]

There are two issues under discussion that are being conflated. Do you HAVE to carry your license? No, not any more. It is YOUR burden to PROVE you are licensed? Yes.

Driver's license:

IC 9-24-18-6
Required licenses; enforcement proceedings; burden of proof
Sec. 6. In a proceeding to enforce IC 9-24-1 requiring the operator
of a vehicle to have a certain type of license, the burden is on the
defendant to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that the
Indiana Code 2015
defendant had been issued the applicable license or permit and that
the license was valid at the time of the alleged offense.
As added by P.L.2-1991, SEC.12.

LTCH:

IC 35-47-2-24
Indictment or information; defendant's burden to prove exemption
or license; arrest, effect of production of valid license, or
establishment of exemption
Sec. 24. (a) In an information or indictment brought for the
enforcement of any provision of this chapter, it is not necessary to
negate any exemption specified under this chapter, or to allege the
absence of a license required under this chapter. The burden of proof
is on the defendant to prove that he is exempt under section 2 of this
chapter, or that he has a license as required under this chapter.
(b) Whenever a person who has been arrested or charged with a
violation of section 1 of this chapter presents a valid license to the
prosecuting attorney or establishes that he is exempt under section 2
of this chapter, any prosecution for a violation of section 1 of this
chapter shall be dismissed immediately, and all records of an arrest
or proceedings following arrest shall be destroyed immediately.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.

Having your license meets that requirement. If you have your license, the burden of proof shifts to the LEO to show it is revoked, issued to someone else instead of you, a forgery, whatever to show it isn't valid. If you don't have it, the LEO can PROBABLY look it up. What happens when the computer is down? Databases get shut down for updates or whatever, there are times when you can't get BMV information back for several hours because they are doing whatever they do to it.

TL;DR: Is it legal to carry w/o a license? Yes, but the code also specifically says you have the burden to show you were licensed and without a license in your possession that becomes more difficult.

 

[chezuki]

There are two issues under discussion that are being conflated. Do you HAVE to carry your license? No, not any more. It is YOUR burden to PROVE you are licensed? Yes.

Driver's license:

IC 9-24-18-6
Required licenses; enforcement proceedings; burden of proof
Sec. 6. In a proceeding to enforce IC 9-24-1 requiring the operator
of a vehicle to have a certain type of license, the burden is on the
defendant to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that the
Indiana Code 2015
defendant had been issued the applicable license or permit and that
the license was valid at the time of the alleged offense.
As added by P.L.2-1991, SEC.12.

LTCH:

IC 35-47-2-24
Indictment or information; defendant's burden to prove exemption
or license; arrest, effect of production of valid license, or
establishment of exemption
Sec. 24. (a) In an information or indictment brought for the
enforcement of any provision of this chapter, it is not necessary to
negate any exemption specified under this chapter, or to allege the
absence of a license required under this chapter. The burden of proof
is on the defendant to prove that he is exempt under section 2 of this
chapter, or that he has a license as required under this chapter.
(b) Whenever a person who has been arrested or charged with a
violation of section 1 of this chapter presents a valid license to the
prosecuting attorney or establishes that he is exempt under section 2
of this chapter, any prosecution for a violation of section 1 of this
chapter shall be dismissed immediately, and all records of an arrest
or proceedings following arrest shall be destroyed immediately.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.

Having your license meets that requirement. If you have your license, the burden of proof shifts to the LEO to show it is revoked, issued to someone else instead of you, a forgery, whatever to show it isn't valid. If you don't have it, the LEO can PROBABLY look it up. What happens when the computer is down? Databases get shut down for updates or whatever, there are times when you can't get BMV information back for several hours because they are doing whatever they do to it.

TL;DR: Is it legal to carry w/o a license? Yes, but the code also specifically says you have the burden to show you were licensed and without a license in your possession that becomes more difficult.

The words "in your possession" were removed from the code a few years ago. While you are not legally required to have the license on you, carrying without a license is a crime and the burden of proof falls on you the show you're carrying legally.

 

[Harleyrider_50]

Mine's next in-line after the DL...

 

[KellyinAvon]

My wallet contains: my unit coin from Korea, a $1 Sacajawea coin, 100 Won from Korea, 1 Qatari Riyal, my Blue-ID Mafia card, multiple debit and credit cards, multiple insurance cards, several business cards (mine and others) and a few "no guns=no money" cards just off the top of my head. Adding a laminated piece of pink paper doesn't seem a bridge too far. And yes, I carry it in my front pocket.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I thought the actual IC codes might help the discussion. Plus you are on my ignore list so I didn't see your post. Or the one I'm replying to. I'm just guessing that it's a smug smiley of some sort.

 

[chezuki]

I thought the actual IC codes might help the discussion. Plus you are on my ignore list so I didn't see your post. Or the one I'm replying to. I'm just guessing that it's a smug smiley of some sort.

No no no.... You're doing it wrong. You're supposed to tassel my hair and say "ya done good kid". I need validation dammit!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

No no no.... You're doing it wrong. You're supposed to tassel my hair and say "ya done good kid". I need validation dammit!

...still nothing.

 

[bulletsmith]

My wallet contains: my unit coin from Korea, a $1 Sacajawea coin, 100 Won from Korea, 1 Qatari Riyal, my Blue-ID Mafia card, multiple debit and credit cards, multiple insurance cards, several business cards (mine and others) and a few "no guns=no money" cards just off the top of my head. Adding a laminated piece of pink paper doesn't seem a bridge too far. And yes, I carry it in my front pocket.

Sugar packets? No sugar packets?

 

[jamil]

I think the ignore list isn't working. I still see everyone's posts.

 

[mikeruth]

The words "in your possession" were removed from the code a few years ago. While you are not legally required to have the license on you, carrying without a license is a crime and the burden of proof falls on you the show you're carrying legally.

Who knows what mood any given LEO will be in on any given day. I carry mine right behind my DL.

 

[TheSpark]

Like I said before, the biggest risk of not having the paper on you is if you run into an anti-gun cop. That cop has no obligation to do your job for you (prove that you have a LTCH) and can happily put the cuffs on you and take you to the clink. They have to destroy all records of your arrest once you prove you have a LTCH but your booking information will likely still get out to the sites that do that stuff and you'll forever be on google as "carrying a handgun without a permit" (yes the charge will say permit). Of course once your booking info/picture is on google you are guilty in the view of public opinion.

If you conceal and don't like the public to know this will also "out" you. Further, it could hurt you in a future job hunt when that booking records comes up in their google search of you.

 

[Scout]

Like I said before, the biggest risk of not having the paper on you is if you run into an anti-gun cop. That cop has no obligation to do your job for you (prove that you have a LTCH) and can happily put the cuffs on you and take you to the clink. They have to destroy all records of your arrest once you prove you have a LTCH but your booking information will likely still get out to the sites that do that stuff and you'll forever be on google as "carrying a handgun without a permit" (yes the charge will say permit). Of course once your booking info/picture is on google you are guilty in the view of public opinion.

If you conceal and don't like the public to know this will also "out" you. Further, it could hurt you in a future job hunt when that booking records comes up in their google search of you.

I'm sure he could do that just to be be a jerk, but doesn't that generate a bunch of wasted paperwork for him/her?

 

[CPT Nervous]

I'm sure he could do that just to be be a jerk, but doesn't that generate a bunch of wasted paperwork for him/her?

What paperwork? Sign the booking log at the jail. Some kind of report. Not much else to do.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Sugar packets? No sugar packets?

Mmmmm no. I do have my USAF drivers license (never expires, hey I'm qualified on warehouse tug, forklifts 2K-15K AND the uber-cool 10K all terrain forklift). American Legion membership card, my last LES from the USAF, and a college ID. I am still a grad student.

 

[CTS]

I think the change was great because accidentally leaving your wallet at work/home shouldn't be a crime, but you'll probably find it inconvenient if you're caught carrying without it.

 

[DRob]

Do yourself a favor. Carry the darned thing! People who ask for trouble generally find it.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Who knows what mood any given LEO will be in on any given day. I carry mine right behind my DL.

Just make sure no pink is showing while you remove your license if you do not wish to inform. I USED to do that. Until I got popped for speeding on 465. The observant trooper saw it over my shoulder as I was removing my license. "I see you are licensed to carry. Do you have your gun in the vehicle with you now?" DOH! (and no, lets not go down the rabbit hole of whether you should/are allowed to lie to the officer. In my case I didnt have it that day...)

 

[Drail]

Yup, I did that exact scene once with a Bloomington cop when I pulled my driver's license out. He was cool about the whole thing - asked "where is your gun?" "in the console" "Let's just leave there OK?" "Yes sir." Then he just laughed and told me to slow it down a bit. After that the pink slip went DEEP into the secret compartment of the wallet. So they actually STOP speeders on 465?!! I've never been able to catch up with any other cars on 465. It's like Death Race 2000 out there.

 

[chipbennett]

Just make sure no pink is showing while you remove your license if you do not wish to inform. I USED to do that. Until I got popped for speeding on 465. The observant trooper saw it over my shoulder as I was removing my license. "I see you are licensed to carry. Do you have your gun in the vehicle with you now?" DOH! (and no, lets not go down the rabbit hole of whether you should/are allowed to lie to the officer. In my case I didnt have it that day...)

"Here's my license, sir. And my registration and proof of insurance. I don't answer questions unrelated to the traffic stop."

 

[ATM]

Do yourself a favor. Carry the darned thing! People who ask for trouble generally find it.

I'm not sure how I'd be doing anyone a favor by graciously pandering to poorly crafted, unjust laws, especially considering the relatively minor nuisance it may cost me to highlight the problem.

How do you feel about people who ask for Liberty but find trouble instead?

"Here's my license, sir. And my registration and proof of insurance. I don't answer questions unrelated to the traffic stop."

Exactly. There is no reason to contemplate lying when one doesn't even need to answer the question.