"You should be afraid"

[kickbacked]

https://www.stltoday.com/news/natio...cle_f3fa7fa1-5b03-5379-ab26-bb6fed57b996.html

When pulling someone over for not having a license plate is it common practice to draw on them right out of the gate?

 

[Kutnupe14]

No for the plate; and I can’t see the other vehicle, but it seems the other driver failed to stop immediately after being lit up, hence why the officer then turned on his siren. Young officers will draw down on you, more seasoned officers, depending on the situation, may recognize that the driver is looking for a “safe” spot to pull over.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

https://www.stltoday.com/news/natio...cle_f3fa7fa1-5b03-5379-ab26-bb6fed57b996.html

When pulling someone over for not having a license plate is it common practice to draw on them right out of the gate?

Not knowing all the circumstances, I don't know if the officers were acting appropriately or not, but this part from the article I think is probably false:

"At one point, Gutierrez told Nazario he was “fixin’ to ride the lightning,” a reference to the electric chair which was also a line from the movie “The Green Mile,” a film about a Black man facing execution."

I think most likely, the term "ride the lightning" in this instance is referring to being tazed.

 

[kickbacked]

Not knowing all the circumstances, I don't know if the officers were acting appropriately or not, but this part from the article I think is probably false:

"At one point, Gutierrez told Nazario he was “fixin’ to ride the lightning,” a reference to the electric chair which was also a line from the movie “The Green Mile,” a film about a Black man facing execution."

I think most likely, the term "ride the lightning" in this instance is referring to being tazed.

ya i agree that ride the lightning is referring to the taser. From my understanding Gutierrez is the officer making the ride the lightning quote and the one the body cam footage is from.

Another officer, Joe Gutierrez, was driving by when he heard Crocker’s call, saw him attempting to stop the SUV and decided to join the traffic stop. Gutierrez acknowledged that Nazario's decision to drive to a lighted area happens to him “a lot, and 80% of the time, it's a minority,” Arthur said, quoting the officer.

I guess im not understanding how if he knows whats going on, why this went down like this. Its not illegal to drive to a well lit area, police have recommended it to women on the local news in the past from what i've seen.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

ya i agree that ride the lightning is referring to the taser. From my understanding Gutierrez is the officer making the ride the lightning quote and the one the body cam footage is from.

Another officer, Joe Gutierrez, was driving by when he heard Crocker’s call, saw him attempting to stop the SUV and decided to join the traffic stop. Gutierrez acknowledged that Nazario's decision to drive to a lighted area happens to him “a lot, and 80% of the time, it's a minority,” Arthur said, quoting the officer.

I guess im not understanding how if he knows whats going on, why this went down like this. Its not illegal to drive to a well lit area, police have recommended it to women on the local news in the past from what i've seen.

While I somewhat understand the lieutenant's hesitation, it really boils down to just follow the instructions of the officers and you're probably going to be okay. If a cop is pointing his gun at me and giving me instructions? I'm gonna follow those instructions. If you want to fight it, fight it in court and not on the side of the road (or in a gas station parking lot). That's been said here before, ad infinitum.

 

[hpclayto]

https://www.stltoday.com/news/natio...cle_f3fa7fa1-5b03-5379-ab26-bb6fed57b996.html

When pulling someone over for not having a license plate is it common practice to draw on them right out of the gate?

When they fail to stop in a vehicle? Yes, it’s called a felony stop. It appears it went several blocks based on the first camera. When the lights come on, pull over, if we’re not in a good spot I’ll either approach you and tell you where to move to or do so over the PA. Nothing about this is unreasonable given the circumstances from what I saw.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

When they fail to stop in a vehicle? Yes, it’s called a felony stop. It appears it went several blocks based on the first camera. When the lights come on, pull over, if we’re not in a good spot I’ll either approach you and tell you where to move to or do so over the PA. Nothing about this is unreasonable given the circumstances from what I saw.

I would imagine if the guy being pulled over would have slowed down and put on his emergency flashers while looking to pull over it might have de-escalated things as well. At least he's acknowledging that he's seen the officers and isn't trying to make a run for it. Just my opinion though.

 

[Ark]

They conducted a felony stop for someone who refused to pull over. What's the problem?

What I don't understand is people who have guns pointed at them and still seem to believe that doing as they're ordered is optional and they can somehow argue their way out of it.

 

[BigRed]

https://www.stltoday.com/news/natio...cle_f3fa7fa1-5b03-5379-ab26-bb6fed57b996.html

When pulling someone over for not having a license plate is it common practice to draw on them right out of the gate?

I count about three dumb ***** in that clip.

 

[maxwelhse]

They conducted a felony stop for someone who refused to pull over. What's the problem?

What I don't understand is people who have guns pointed at them and still seem to believe that doing as they're ordered is optional and they can somehow argue their way out of it.

...and that guy claims to be an military officer.

 

[jbombelli]

That guy is a F'ing idiot.

 

[BugI02]

You've got no rear plate, so he can't find out who and what he's got. You don't stop when lit up and proceed a considerable distance down the road even when he goes with the siren

I think you are already arguably in flee and evade territory, and without the ability to run the plate you are a big question mark. I think the stop was fine given the circumstances. If you're looking for a safe place to stop only, why the reluctance to show your hands or exit the vehicle. Dude is doing everything wrong

 

[kickbacked]

When they fail to stop in a vehicle? Yes, it’s called a felony stop. It appears it went several blocks based on the first camera. When the lights come on, pull over, if we’re not in a good spot I’ll either approach you and tell you where to move to or do so over the PA. Nothing about this is unreasonable given the circumstances from what I saw.

I dont think he pulled into a gas station for the officers safety but for his own. Which Ive heard echo'd by the police. Its reasonable to go several blocks in the middle of the night before finding a well lit location.

Why is there no deescalating? The man was very calm from the beginning, he was calm when he got oc sprayed. You can see through the tint in the video so its reasonable to think the plate would have been visible in the window. Imagine being blind, frantically trying to get out of the car and reaching down for the seatbelt which happens to be where a lot of people carry firearms. Sounds like a great way to get a collection of lead. If I have firearms trained on me, im not reaching for something an inch away from a weapon.




from the body cam we have roughly 20 seconds before he pulls over. Sounds like the officer says the speed is 18. Doesnt really seem like he's running or traveling a long distance.

 

[buckwacker]

I count about three dumb ***** in that clip.

I think I'd have to agree, or at least a couple. The Lt was a bit argumentative\uncooperative, but not sure how I'd react if I know I hadn't done anything that would warrant weapons deployed. The cop doing most of the yelling seems a bit on the a hole power trippy side, the other one seemed pretty reasonable.

 

[BugI02]

Imagine being blind, frantically trying to get out of the car and reaching down for the seatbelt which happens to be where a lot of people carry firearms. Sounds like a great way to get a collection of lead. If I have firearms trained on me, im not reaching for something an inch away from a weapon.

Or, he could have exited the vehicle when first instructed and he wouldn't have been sprayed and he would have been at far less risk of being shot. It's NOT rocket science. Regardless of how you think things ought to be, the man has a gun pointed at you and if you want to avoid the bad consequences you should be concentrating on doing whatever you can to demonstrate you are not a threat. At that point, what you think you should or should not have to do is not the most important consideration

 

[hpclayto]

I dont think he pulled into a gas station for the officers safety but for his own. Which Ive heard echo'd by the police. Its reasonable to go several blocks in the middle of the night before finding a well lit location.

Why is there no deescalating? The man was very calm from the beginning, he was calm when he got oc sprayed. You can see through the tint in the video so its reasonable to think the plate would have been visible in the window. Imagine being blind, frantically trying to get out of the car and reaching down for the seatbelt which happens to be where a lot of people carry firearms. Sounds like a great way to get a collection of lead. If I have firearms trained on me, im not reaching for something an inch away from a weapon.




from the body cam we have roughly 20 seconds before he pulls over. Sounds like the officer says the speed is 18. Doesnt really seem like he's running or traveling a long distance.

It doesn’t matter why he did what he did at the time, it’s impossible to know someone else’s intentions. Speed and duration has nothing to do with it either, I’ve had many a pursuit that didn’t get over 15 miles an hour and we’re short in duration.

Had he followed commands he never would have been “blinded” by OC in the first place. This dude is the definition of non compliance. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. It’s not hard. If you’re told to do something, do it. Cops tell you to get out of the car, do it. Cops tell you you’re under arrest and to put your hands behind your back, do it. The police may be 100 percent in the wrong. Your rights may very well have been violated. In the middle of an incident and on the side of the road is not the time or place for that argument. Hire a lawyer, go to court and get your justice. 99 percent of these “controversial” police incidents never would have happened if the suspects had just done what they were told to do.

 

[maxwelhse]

Why is there no deescalating?

Isn't deescalation a 2 way street? How many times did they yell at the dude to keep his hands outside of the car? Maybe roll the windows down, turn the interior lights on, etc while coming to a stop? Maybe kick the hazards on to signal intent?

Additionally...

See the difference between this:


And this:


Guy needed a face full of OC, TWICE, before he would even clearly show his hands. WTF?

I see mistakes on both sides here (Officer "ride the lightning" needs to calm down), but the driver had the biggest opportunity to correct them and failed literally every time. The more I see stuff like this, the more it makes me think the people in the videos want exactly the reaction we give them: to go viral on the internet.

 

[Slapstick]

What got me is he is a second lieutenant who was refusing to follow the lawful direction of a police officer. I wonder if he allows those under his command to refuse his orders the same way he was refusing the officers orders? I doubt it.

 

[Ark]

So tired of hearing people whine about "deescalating". Why didn't you just shoot him with the deescalation gun? Why didn't Obi-Wan just use his deescalating mind trick?

Ask, tell, make. If you don't do it when you're asked, and you don't do it when you're told, the police will make you do it. You decide the amount of force that is used against you. You have the power to "deescalate" yourself, by doing what you are told during a lawful traffic stop and a lawful arrest.

He chose to complain, argue, refuse, and resist, so the police stopped telling and started making. I think this is another case of somebody believing they have the magic ethnicity that exempts them from following police orders.

 

[Tombs]

One thing I will never understand is why people can't follow completely clear and simple orders, get the situation chilled out, then present their argument if they want to argue.

Resisting doesn't make logical sense unless you're going to do some very illegal things.

Also I do wonder if LEO are cool with you pulling off the closest available turn off on a highway for both parties safety, and if that's communicable. Seems like something that should be the norm.