Why the hate for Cyclists?

[jamil]

I know that, that is why I quoted it to point that out to those in this thread that think that staying as far right as possible in the lane is not enough that they are in fact wrong. I'm quoting IC

Staying to the right of the road is fine. I have no problem with that. Which I’ve said many times in this thread. It’s easy to pass a single bike which is to the right, even on my road. It’s the clubs which ride 2,3 abreast. I’ve also said what would help solve the problem. Clubs should break up their rides into smaller groups. Ride single file. It’s dangerous to ride a twisty hilly road with a couple dozen riders in the middle of the road.

 

[jamil]

You're talking about this picture, right?

What picture?

 

[chipbennett]

I’ll just say it outright. Almost all roads were not designed with bicycles in mind. It does not matter that you pay taxes that end up partially funding construction/maintenance on the road you drive your car on. The law allows cyclists to ride on those roads. In a practical sense, I’m fine with that. But, cyclists are the second class on that road primarily intended for automobiles. I don’t think the law should view them as equals, because they’re not.

I don’t advocate that cyclists should pay taxes or get licensed or pay insurance. But, I’d think of you as more than second class if you did. Okay. So ho ahead and tell me all the things I didn’t say but you’re sure I meant.

I don't even think of cyclists as second-class users of roads, but otherwise: yes, this.

Roads are for public use. Roads were designed and intended for motor vehicle traffic. Other forms of transport can and do use roads, but their use causes issues with the efficiency of use of those roads. That inefficiency can lead to frustration. Some motorists need to learn to exercise patience. Some cyclists need to learn to acknowledge that they contribute to inefficient traffic flow and therefore to motorist frustration. (The same could be said of some farmers, or some motorcyclists, or various other demographics of road users.)

However one uses a road, it is incumbent on the one who is impeding otherwise free-flowing traffic to yield to that traffic. Under no circumstances does such a principle imply or require that one must act in an unsafe manner. And, again - still - all users should treat each other respectfully.

 

[chipbennett]

What picture?

The one linked?

 

[Ingomike]

IIRC, it was in the context of a sub-discussion in which @Ingomike (again, IIRC) made the claim that roads were first built because of bicycle clubs raising money for them, or something along those lines. It was, IIRC, all within the context of the claim that roads were designed for use by cyclists, which remains untrue. Roads were designed for use by motor vehicles.

It is true that many early paved roads in the US were built by “wheelmen” as they were called for bicycles, as I provided links for. (Since we can’t seem to understand words on INGO anymore that is not implying all roads.)

 

[Ingomike]

I’ll just say it outright. Almost all roads were not designed with bicycles in mind. It does not matter that you pay taxes that end up partially funding construction/maintenance on the road you drive your car on. The law allows cyclists to ride on those roads. In a practical sense, I’m fine with that. But, cyclists are the second class on that road primarily intended for automobiles. I don’t think the law should view them as equals, because they’re not.

I don’t advocate that cyclists should pay taxes or get licensed or pay insurance. But, I’d think of you as more than second class if you did. Okay. So ho ahead and tell me all the things I didn’t say but you’re sure I meant.

You said it all. Funding of roads and even the design of roads does not designate classes of users, they all have their equal rights to use the road.

 

[chipbennett]

It is true that many early paved roads in the US were built by “wheelmen” as they were called for bicycles, as I provided links for. (Since we can’t seem to understand words on INGO anymore that is not implying all roads.)

I have no desire to rehash that discussion. I was merely providing the requested context for my comment, so as to refute one of the many straw man arguments ascribed to me.

 

[Ingomike]

I have no desire to rehash that discussion. I was merely providing the requested context for my comment, so as to refute one of the many straw man arguments ascribed to me.

Facts are facts…

 

[chipbennett]

Facts are facts…

I refer you back to my previous comment.

 

[Ingomike]

IIRC, it was in the context of a sub-discussion in which @Ingomike (again, IIRC) made the claim that roads were first built because of bicycle clubs raising money for them, or something along those lines. It was, IIRC, all within the context of the claim that roads were designed for use by cyclists, which remains untrue. Roads were designed for use by motor vehicles.

Refute this historical account of cyclists and early roads.

“The Good Roads Movement of the late 19th century began as a grass-roots crusade to improve roads for bicyclists. By the 20th century, it had turned into a national effort embraced by the automobile industry”​

How Gilded Age Bicyclists Paved the Way for the Modern Highway System

The Good Roads Movement of the late 19th century began as a grass-roots crusade to improve roads for bicyclists. By the 20th century, it had turned into a national effort embraced by the automobile industry, railroad tycoons and presidents.

www.governing.com

How Bikes Helped Invent American Highways | What It Means to Be American

Before there were cars, America’s country roads were unpaved, and they were abysmal. Back then, roads were so unreliable for travelers that most state

www.whatitmeanstobeamerican.org

 

[Creedmoor]

 

[jamil]

The one linked?

I found it when I looked at it on the desktop. On the phone it’s not different enough to distinguish the link unless I’m looking for a link.

 

[jamil]

It is true that many early paved roads in the US were built by “wheelmen” as they were called for bicycles, as I provided links for. (Since we can’t seem to understand words on INGO anymore that is not implying all roads.)

What roads are in use now, and which ones are designed for both bikes and cars? They’re all primarily purposed for automobiles, but bikes can use them too. So bikes have a secondary purpose for road use. In the age of climate hysteria, and a desire to limit the mobility of citizens, some roads have been reconstructed with bike lanes.

However, most roads don’t have lanes specifically designed to segregate parts intended for automobiles and parts intended for bicycles. So they have to share. That sharing is inherently dangerous. It’s on you to take responsibility for your own safety. Speed doesn’t kill. Rapid speed delta kills. So when you put two vehicle types on the same road that operate at much different speeds, especially when the slower one is orders of magnitude less massive, the one in the smaller vehicle is almost always the one most likely getting killed.

If you’re gonna ride on a road designed for automobiles, you assume the most risk. So ride accordingly. So what do you suppose I’m saying about that which I’m not actually saying? Are a bicycle rider are you the primary class of vehicle using the road? No. You’re not. That’s what I’m saying.

 

[jamil]

Refute this historical account of cyclists and early roads.

“The Good Roads Movement of the late 19th century began as a grass-roots crusade to improve roads for bicyclists. By the 20th century, it had turned into a national effort embraced by the automobile industry”​

How Gilded Age Bicyclists Paved the Way for the Modern Highway System

The Good Roads Movement of the late 19th century began as a grass-roots crusade to improve roads for bicyclists. By the 20th century, it had turned into a national effort embraced by the automobile industry, railroad tycoons and presidents.

www.governing.com

How Bikes Helped Invent American Highways | What It Means to Be American

Before there were cars, America’s country roads were unpaved, and they were abysmal. Back then, roads were so unreliable for travelers that most state

www.whatitmeanstobeamerican.org

So? What matters to the conversation is, what are roads designed for today? Are you trying to argue that, but for early use of paved roads for bicycles, no one would ever have thought to pave roads for cars?

 

[Ingomike]

What roads are in use now, and which ones are designed for both bikes and cars? They’re all primarily purposed for automobiles, but bikes can use them too. So bikes have a secondary purpose for road use. In the age of climate hysteria, and a desire to limit the mobility of citizens, some roads have been reconstructed with bike lanes.

However, most roads don’t have lanes specifically designed to segregate parts intended for automobiles and parts intended for bicycles. So they have to share. That sharing is inherently dangerous. It’s on you to take responsibility for your own safety. Speed doesn’t kill. Rapid speed delta kills. So when you put two vehicle types on the same road that operate at much different speeds, especially when the slower one is orders of magnitude less massive, the one in the smaller vehicle is almost always the one most likely getting killed.

If you’re gonna ride on a road designed for automobiles, you assume the most risk. So ride accordingly. So what do you suppose I’m saying about that which I’m not actually saying? Are a bicycle rider are you the primary class of vehicle using the road? No. You’re not. That’s what I’m saying.

Is there any road that cars use that is not usable for bicycles? Not that I am aware of. Why are you so cocksure that no consideration is given to road surface and design as to it being functional for bicycles?

 

[jamil]

Is there any road that cars use that is not usable for bicycles? Not that I am aware of. Why are you so cocksure that no consideration is given to road surface and design as to it being functional for bicycles?

1: Yes. Bikes can use roads intended for automobiles.

2: roads that are built in consideration of cyclists would be built in a way that minimizes the danger of motor vehicles operating on the same road as bicycles. So at leas some separation between the two. Separate bike lanes with protective barriers would be ideal. But costly. Most roads are built for cars.

 

[Ingomike]

Most roads are built for cars.

No they are not. They are built for all recognized modes of transportation in the laws for roads…

 

[actaeon277]

Oh
My
God

 

[Creedmoor]

Oh
My
God

Don't be clutching your grandma's pearls!!!!!


Edit,
The drama here is better than watching Steve Wilcos,,, Well almost better

 

[Ingomike]

Oh
My
God

Don't be clutching your grandma's pearls!!!!!


Edit,
The drama here is better than watching Steve Wilcos,,, Well almost better

Exactly how anti-gunners reply.