Why I Open Carry...

[dburkhead]

Soooooooo, just because I do not agree with you, I MUST be a troll? Nice.

No, it's because you come in, assert without qualification that you are right, from the start use insulting language for those who simply have a different opinion ("grow up"), ignore any counterarguments to your claim, and generally present yourself as being completely unable to accept that reasonable, intelligent people can actually come to a different opinion than yours.

That goes much farther than just disagreeing.

 

[mikea46996]

Soooooooo, just because I do not agree with you, I MUST be a troll? Nice.

No you are a troll because you are putting down another gun owners choice.
Last time I checked we are free to decide how we wish to carry.
I also CC 90% of the time. I am slightly uncomfortable with OC because it does tend to draw the attention of others. I will not try to belittle others because they choice to OC. It is their right, just as CC is my right. When we divide amongst ourselves we will provide the rife that they need to take all of our rights.

If you cannot put aside your difference in opinion and stand tall and proud with your fellow gun owner brothers and sisters we will fall.

That is why I believe you are a TROLL

 

[greyhound47]

I really do appreciate the well thought out responses. When I look at my motivations for what I have said I refer to my own experiences. Where I live and areas I work the people I have see open carry do NOT help OUR cause. These are not professional or clean cut people or even PRESENTABLE people to which I am referring. I can think of three off the top of my head that are a laughing stock to carrry people and those who do nto like or understand guns. This is why I used the unfortunate term of "douchebag". It fits these specific individuals I have seen quite well.

I do not need to carry a gun on my hip in the open to spread the "gospel" of personal protection. I have these kinds of conversations at least a couple time per week. To be immodest, I would guess that my approach is far more persuasive than that of the examples set by the "db's" I referred to earlier.

With that said, I called very specific people I know and have seen the names. I did not refer to anyone here by any names. I simply spelled out that open carry is NOT understaood by everyday people and it is wholly counterproductive to OUR cause.

 

[greyhound47]

If you cannot put aside your difference in opinion and stand tall and proud with your fellow gun owner brothers and sisters we will fall.

That is why I believe you are a TROLL

The people to which I am referring are of such a caliber that I would NOT stand with them.

 

[jeremy]

The people to which I am referring are of such a caliber that I would NOT stand with them.

Huh... So far I would not stand with you either.

 

[dburkhead]

I really do appreciate the well thought out responses. When I look at my motivations for what I have said I refer to my own experiences. Where I live and areas I work the people I have see open carry do NOT help OUR cause. These are not professional or clean cut people or even PRESENTABLE people to which I am referring. I can think of three off the top of my head that are a laughing stock to carrry people and those who do nto like or understand guns. This is why I used the unfortunate term of "douchebag". It fits these specific individuals I have seen quite well.

And by using that argument as to why people here should not open carry you lump them in the same category. Do you not see why people might not find that a bit offensive?

I do not need to carry a gun on my hip in the open to spread the "gospel" of personal protection. I have these kinds of conversations at least a couple time per week. To be immodest, I would guess that my approach is far more persuasive than that of the examples set by the "db's" I referred to earlier.

Great. You affect a couple of people per week.

On one trip OC to the store, at least a couple of dozen people see a soft-spoken family man not causing a bit of problem, who just happens to have a gun at his belt.

While I do not dispute the value of the former, I also recognize the value of the latter.

With that said, I called very specific people I know and have seen the names. I did not refer to anyone here by any names. I simply spelled out that open carry is NOT understaood by everyday people and it is wholly counterproductive to OUR cause

The only people they see open carrying are bad guys? So you consider it to help our cause to continue that? Thus ensuring that the only people they see open carrying will continue to be bad guys?

Yeah, you talk to a couple of people a week. And maybe what you say "sticks" with them. But most people only see bad guys with guns. The media tells them that guns = crime. The only people they see with guns are "bad guys." Guess what's going to stick with them. Guess which side they're going to think about when they vote.

Being "in the closet" has never been good for the rights of any group, whether Marranos in Europe, Christians in the old Soviet Union, or gun owners in the United States. If nothing else, it only makes persecution (especially legal persecution) that much easier.

By myself, open carrying by myself, I'd probably not have a lot of effect. However, if more folk would do so, people would start getting used to seeing armed folk who are not causing trouble.

Now, these benefits won't happen today and they won't happen tomorrow. It's the accumulation of small impulses that does the work. But, as they say, the Mills of the Gods grind slowly, but exceedingly fine.

 

[mikea46996]

These are not professional or clean cut people or even PRESENTABLE people to which I am referring. I can think of three off the top of my head that are a laughing stock to carrry people and those who do nto like or understand guns. This is why I used the unfortunate term of "douchebag". It fits these specific individuals I have seen quite well.


Hmmmmmm seems very judgmental so what you are saying is that someones outward appearance in turn makes them a Douchebag??

Hmmmm Ever heard of "The Wild Hogs" No not the movie. It is a Biker Club comprised of only LEO, I have had the experience of riding with some of these gentlemen and from their outward appearance I would bet you would judge them as Douchebags.

Seems kind of wrong if you look at it from another point of view doesn't it?

I would bet if I were Black or god forbid Arab you would also believe me to be a bad guy. Right?

Any legal upstanding Gun Owner I would proudly stand with not caring what they look like. People like you will give those in power the ammo needed to hurt us. Maybe we should not allow people who don't dress to your standard to purchase firearms. The 2nd doesn't say we have the right to be armed only if we dress properly.

I have tattoos on both arms and back should I not be allowed to OC because of this?
Oh I had better shave my long goatee of too for fear i will not be able to OC.

Honestly if I saw somebody who did look "shady" I would be more comfortable if they were OCing then CCing. How many criminals OC?

 

[jsgolfman]

I guess only clean cut, professionals have rights. Who knew?

 

[jeremy]

I guess only clean cut, professionals have rights. Who knew?

So does this mean I have no rights?

 

[redneckmedic]

Fresh off the grill...Smoked Hound ASS! I think this will be a learning experiance for me on when and how to open my fat mouth!

Why do you suppose it is illegal in some states to OC but not CC...i.e. Texas?
Explaining from a logic standpoint that is, not a Bureacratic BS standpoint, not to confuse the two!

 

[jeremy]

Why do you suppose it is illegal in some states to OC but not CC...i.e. Texas?

It is legal to CC in Texas. Pick another state please.

Concealed Permit:
Shall Issue to Residents and Non-Residents

Issuing Authority:
Texas Department of Public Safety

NICS check: Yes

Cost:
For most Texans, the license will cost $140. But for senior citizens or indigent Texans, the cost is only $70. For active/honorably retired peace officers or active/retired judicial officers, the cost is $25. For elected felony prosecuting attorneys, fee is waived.

Requirements:
To qualify for a Texas CHL you must:
1. Be 21 years old. (Members and former members of the armed forces must be 18.)
2. Have a clean criminal history, including military service and recent juvenile records.
3. Not be under a protective order.
4. Not be chemically dependent.
5. Not be of unsound mind.
6. Not be delinquent in paying fines, fees, child support, student loans, etc.
7. Be eligible to purchase a handgun by completing the NICS check.
8. Complete required training.

More information on the specifics of qualifying are available on the Texas Department of Public Safety site.

Informing Law Enforcement of Carry:
If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license. A person who fails or refuses to display the license and identification as required by this subsection is subject to suspension of the person's license as provided by Section 411.187.

So basically if the LEO asks for your ID, go ahead and give him both.

Automobile carry:
A persons' own premises or premises under their control, including in their motor vehicle. (Handguns in a vehicle must be concealed.)

Places off-limits when carrying:
Handguns and other weapons cannot be carried at schools or on school buses, at polling places, in courts and court offices, at racetracks, at secured airport areas or within 1,000 feet of the premises of an execution on the day of execution. The law also specifically prohibits handguns from businesses where alcohol is sold if more than half of their revenue is from the sale of alcohol for on premises consumption, and from locations where high school, college, or professional sporting events are taking place. You man not carry handguns in hospitals or nursing homes, amusement parks, places of worship or at government meeting if signs are posted prohibiting them. Businesses also may post signs prohibiting handguns on their premises based on criminal trespass laws. See Texas Penal Code 46.032. (Judges, prosecuting attorneys, peace officers and parole offices should consult Texas Penal Code 46.15 regarding exemptions from the "no-carry" rules of the Penal Code.)

Alcohol and Drugs:
It is unlawful for a handgun license holder to carry a handgun while intoxicated.
Deadly Force / Castle Doctrine:
Texas is a Castle Doctrine state with a stand-your-ground law.
Open Carry:
Prohibited in all public areas under most circumstances.

 

[redneckmedic]

Why do you suppose it is illegal in some states to OC but not CC...i.e. Texas?
Explaining from a logic standpoint that is, not a Bureacratic BS standpoint, not to confuse the two!

JEREMY, please re-read the question....Why do you suppose it is illegal in some states to OPEN CARRY but not to CC, in Texas it is illegal to open carry but not to CC. Thanks for jumping my post so quickly though.

 

[greyhound47]

OK, I give. Walking around with a gun hanging on your hip for all to see makes you very manly and a image of virtue and greatness. Now, those of you that feel it is necessary can get together and measure who has the biggest gun to make yourself feel better. I conceal mine but that is my choice. I have nothing to prove.

I was just trying to give you another view of how you MAY appear to the everyday person and how this MAY be damaging to the cause. Some of you are too worried about maintaining your myopic perspective while our second amendment rights go down the drain. Yes, you ARE judged by how you appear. I did not invent this. It is FACT. You want to be a laughing stock to those around you? Knock yourself out. Have at it. I am done with this silly arguement. I promise to never post in the Carry Issues forum again. I will go start a really constructive post like "Glock or 1911, which is better?"

 

[tv1217]

Good riddance.

 

[mikea46996]

OK, I give. Walking around with a gun hanging on your hip for all to see makes you very manly and a image of virtue and greatness. Now, those of you that feel it is necessary can get together and measure who has the biggest gun to make yourself feel better. I conceal mine but that is my choice. I have nothing to prove.
Hey troll I also CC have you not read the post? I was standing up for the rights of my fellow gunowners to choose CC or OC. So we don't need a gun measuring contest.

I was just trying to give you another view of how you MAY appear to the everyday person and how this MAY be damaging to the cause. Some of you are too worried about maintaining your myopic perspective while our second amendment rights go down the drain. Yes, you ARE judged by how you appear.
There is only one person who can judge me and it isn't you, if you are judging people by their looks instead of actions I truly feel sorry for you.
I did not invent this. It is FACT. You want to be a laughing stock to those around you? Knock yourself out. Have at it. I am done with this silly arguement. I promise to never post in the Carry Issues forum again. I will go start a really constructive post like "Glock or 1911, which is better?"

And you asked why I thought of you as a Troll?!?!?!

 

[jsgolfman]

Turn the lights off on your way out, k? B-bye

 

[dburkhead]

OK, I give. Walking around with a gun hanging on your hip for all to see makes you very manly and a image of virtue and greatness.

So basically you're going to just ignore what others with a different viewpoint is saying and simply stick with your own erroneous interpretation of what people are thinking?

Well, whatever works for you.

Now, those of you that feel it is necessary can get together and measure who has the biggest gun to make yourself feel better.

This kind of thing is why people think you're a troll. The idea that people might have reasons that don't match your preconceptions never even crosses your mind, does it?

I conceal mine but that is my choice.

Yes. It is. No one has said otherwise.

I have nothing to prove.

I'll take you at your word, but I'm a little curious why, if you have nothing to prove, you get huffy and insulting when people provide a different viewpoint, and reach different conclusions, than you do.

I was just trying to give you another view of how you MAY appear to the everyday person and how this MAY be damaging to the cause.

If you had actually read the arguments on this topic that had come up before--as was recommended uptopic--you'd see that your "another view" is nothing new and that all your points have been addressed many times before.

Some of you are too worried about maintaining your myopic perspective while our second amendment rights go down the drain.

"We're here, we're queer, get used to it." Remember that? One may not agree with the more, extreme, shall we say proponents of that "lifestyle" but it was coming out of the closet that got their rights not to be discriminated against largely recognized. (Now, many go far beyond any justification, but that's a different story.)

"Coming out of the closet" was a large part of that.

As for "myopic perspective" I have yet to see you address a single persons arguments against your initial claims--except to simply repeat those claims.

"Proof by repeated assertion" is a logical fallacy for a reason.

Yes, you ARE judged by how you appear. I did not invent this. It is FACT. You want to be a laughing stock to those around you? Knock yourself out. Have at it. I am done with this silly arguement. I promise to never post in the Carry Issues forum again. I will go start a really constructive post like "Glock or 1911, which is better?"

And, of course, you can never be wrong and nobody who draws different conclusions can have a point--or, in fact, be anything other than, well, look above for the terms you used.

Look, there's nothing wrong with disagreeing, but there are ways to disagree that do not descend into trolling. You can find some good examples right here in these forums. One good example if our own Bill of Rights. He and I don't always agree (he can't be right all the time ), but note how he expresses disagreement: he's always courteous. He keeps his comments addressed to the issue not the character or maturity of the poster. And sometimes, due to the manner in which he expresses his disagreement, I come to learn that I'm wr... I'm wro.... I'm wro...o... Um, I'm not entirely right.

Now, I'm human. I don't always meet the standard I've outlined here, but I try, mostly, at least so long as I believe the person I am disagreeing with is at least interested in an honest discussion. And even when I don't so believe, I think calm rationality is more effective for those in the peanut gallery than invective and insults.

Some, however, appear to be of a different opinion. Want to talk about helping us lose our rights, that's one big one right there. If someone acts as if they have the maturity of a six year old, then people start wondering if, maybe, they shouldn't be allowed to have guns after all. I truly hope that the problem here is one of expressing yourself well online and that you don't fall into that category. It happens.

I generally find that it's best to start from the position that the person you're disagreeing with is a reasonable, intelligent person who has good reasons for drawing different conclusions from what I do--at least given the information that they have available. And who knows, maybe they have more information, or certain key information, that I lack and it might just turn out that it's my own position that's in error. It happens.

But what won't happen is somebody using nothing but insults, invective, and simple repetition of their conclusion without addressing the reasons that I draw different ones, changing my mind. Shout all you want, it won't change my mind. I suspect I'm far from alone in that.

 

[y3khunter]

Wow, what an argument, I can see both sides of this, for comfort OC is nice, but I personally lean more toward CC, I look at it this way, the only guy that should see your gun is the dead guy, I see no need to broadcast to the world that I have a gun, in my experience, as both private sector, and as a bona-fide law enforcement officer, that having a firearm exposed can draw more trouble than it is worth, firearms can sometimes draw the bad element right to you, but in contrast I have found myself in opposite position as well. I think that casting a positive light on firearm carry is the most important issue around today. Maybe we should organize a million gun march? one day a year we all open carry, whether it is legal or not, they can't arrest us all. Please be kind to me in your responses, I am new here and have not read all of the forums yet, but I am working on it.

 

[ATM]

Walking around with a gun hanging on your hip for all to see makes you very manly and a image of virtue and greatness.
I suspect this is true... I am a buffet of manliness.

I have nothing to prove.
I am waiting for the core reasons why YOU really hate exposed weapons.

I am done with this silly arguement.
Is it because you don't want to admit or discuss these core reasons?

I promise to never post in the Carry Issues forum again.
That's a shame. An open attitude is all that's requested.

I will go start a really constructive post like "Glock or 1911, which is better?"
XD.

Carry on.

 

[ATM]

...Why do you suppose it is illegal in some states to OPEN CARRY but not to CC, in Texas it is illegal to open carry but not to CC.

This is worthy of it's own thread IMHO.

Also, in some states you may carry openly without a license but require one to conceal (which makes a little more sense to me.)

I really have no idea what the supporting reasons for forced concealment were.