What the Indy FedEx Shooting Means for INGO

[churchmouse]

Didn't read most of this thread, but I wanted to just say: we don't have a gun problem in this country, we don't even have a mental health problem in this country...we have a mental health CARE problem.

End the stigma, get people the help they need.

Well I can see the ban did not stick.....again.....

 

[kickbacked]

Just a little bit of my opinion on the mental health topic. It is very easy to be diagnosed with a mental illness.
My grandmother was born at the tail end of the depression(edit: during the financial collapse of the 20's, not the medical kind), moved across the country with my grandfather at 18 when he started his military career, raised a family while her husband served overseas during Korea & Vietnam, took care of her dying mother, daughter, father, and husband. Never once was diagnosed with any mental illness. After her husband passed she went to her new general dr for a checkup and was diagnosed with depression at the age of 80 something. This was maybe a month after his passing. I couldnt believe it, death is something that should be sad. Its not depression its called grieving.

I went into the Dr. for a sore throat about 5 years back. I saw the paper work and stopped my Dr in the hall. I was diagnosed with being overweight and whatever was wrong with my throat. I didnt come in for that, i came in for a sore throat. My Dr. said it didnt matter, i was still overweight according to the bmi chart. I was in the gym 5 days a week at that time and watching my carbs/fats/ protein intake. I was in great shape.

My caution is that its very easy to go to the Dr. for something and walk out with a diagnosis that you didnt expect. Mental illness is also very very subjective. I think you could probably pin a mental illness on everyone at some point in their life. I know these people that shoot up places are fing crazy. No doubt but mental illness goes from getting nervous flying on planes all the way to one flew over the cuckoos nest. If we start blaming mental illness and removing firearms from people with them 1. people will stop seeking help. 2. a Dr. could easily catch you on a bad day and slap you with one possibly putting you on a no sell list or getting a visit from an alphabet agency.

 

[bwframe]

Majority? Far from it. I think the majority are able to read his posts with open minds. Others, as I said, read every word in the worst possible light. It isn't like I agree with much of what he posts, but I can't imagine ever reporting one of his posts. Like CM said, if people can't handle reading his posts like adults, just ignore him

I see. Those that do not buy into you and the OP's narrative, mannerisms and politics are not adults.

Right...

 

[churchmouse]

Just a little bit of my opinion on the mental health topic. It is very easy to be diagnosed with a mental illness.
My grandmother was born at the tail end of the depression, moved across the country with my grandfather at 18 when he started his military career, raised a family while her husband served overseas during Korea & Vietnam, took care of her dying mother, daughter, father, and husband. Never once was diagnosed with any mental illness. After her husband passed she went to her new general dr for a checkup and was diagnosed with depression at the age of 80 something. This was maybe a month after his passing. I couldnt believe it, death is something that should be sad. Its not depression its called grieving.

I went into the Dr. for a sore throat about 5 years back. I saw the paper work and stopped my Dr in the hall. I was diagnosed with being overweight and whatever was wrong with my throat. I didnt come in for that, i came in for a sore throat. My Dr. said it didnt matter, i was still overweight according to the bmi chart. I was in the gym 5 days a week at that time and watching my carbs/fats/ protein intake. I was in great shape.

My caution is that its very easy to go to the Dr. for something and walk out with a diagnosis that you didnt expect. Mental illness is also very very subjective. I think you could probably pin a mental illness on everyone at some point in their life. I know these people that shoot up places are fing crazy. No doubt but mental illness goes from getting nervous flying on planes all the way to one flew over the cuckoos nest. If we start blaming mental illness and removing firearms from people with them 1. people will stop seeking help. 2. a Dr. could easily catch you on a bad day and slap you with one possibly putting you on a no sell list or getting a visit from an alphabet agency.

Exactly.
When going through some serious Chemo/Radiation and looking at the stop watch they gave me (3 years.....4 max) right after the 2nd series my GP diagnosed me with clinical depression.
Well what the hell.......yeah I was scared to death and nervous as hell. He gave me some kind of anti-depressant that I took for maybe a week and the sides drove me nuts. Those went down the toilet. He was pissed but guess what....I was better off realizing my issue and doing something about it rather than rely on an outside source to save me.

Oh, yeah......that was in 02. so I should have been dead by 06.....

 

[churchmouse]

I see. Those that do not buy into you and the OP's narrative, mannerisms and politics are not adults.

Right...

Oh for crap sake man that is not what he said. Agree/disagree.....your call.

 

[bwframe]

Oh for crap sake man that is not what he said. Agree/disagree.....your call.

I guess that is your call, my friend. I quoted the gent's post in question...

 

[churchmouse]

I guess that is your call, my friend. I quoted the gent's post in question...

I saw that. And my response may have been a bit of a push when not really intended to be.

Been a rough couple of days.

I need a drink.

But I dont drink anymore.

So now what.....

"BUTT"......I was referred to in that comment as the source...

 

[IndyBeerman]

Just a little bit of my opinion on the mental health topic. It is very easy to be diagnosed with a mental illness.
My grandmother was born at the tail end of the depression, moved across the country with my grandfather at 18 when he started his military career, raised a family while her husband served overseas during Korea & Vietnam, took care of her dying mother, daughter, father, and husband. Never once was diagnosed with any mental illness. After her husband passed she went to her new general dr for a checkup and was diagnosed with depression at the age of 80 something. This was maybe a month after his passing. I couldnt believe it, death is something that should be sad. Its not depression its called grieving.

I went into the Dr. for a sore throat about 5 years back. I saw the paper work and stopped my Dr in the hall. I was diagnosed with being overweight and whatever was wrong with my throat. I didnt come in for that, i came in for a sore throat. My Dr. said it didnt matter, i was still overweight according to the bmi chart. I was in the gym 5 days a week at that time and watching my carbs/fats/ protein intake. I was in great shape.

My caution is that its very easy to go to the Dr. for something and walk out with a diagnosis that you didnt expect. Mental illness is also very very subjective. I think you could probably pin a mental illness on everyone at some point in their life. I know these people that shoot up places are fing crazy. No doubt but mental illness goes from getting nervous flying on planes all the way to one flew over the cuckoos nest. If we start blaming mental illness and removing firearms from people with them 1. people will stop seeking help. 2. a Dr. could easily catch you on a bad day and slap you with one possibly putting you on a no sell list or getting a visit from an alphabet agency.

^^^^^
THIS

I'm not going to go into detail, but a doctor, expecially one that does not know you, can really screw life up for a person.

 

[DadSmith]

Just a little bit of my opinion on the mental health topic. It is very easy to be diagnosed with a mental illness.
My grandmother was born at the tail end of the depression, moved across the country with my grandfather at 18 when he started his military career, raised a family while her husband served overseas during Korea & Vietnam, took care of her dying mother, daughter, father, and husband. Never once was diagnosed with any mental illness. After her husband passed she went to her new general dr for a checkup and was diagnosed with depression at the age of 80 something. This was maybe a month after his passing. I couldnt believe it, death is something that should be sad. Its not depression its called grieving.

I went into the Dr. for a sore throat about 5 years back. I saw the paper work and stopped my Dr in the hall. I was diagnosed with being overweight and whatever was wrong with my throat. I didnt come in for that, i came in for a sore throat. My Dr. said it didnt matter, i was still overweight according to the bmi chart. I was in the gym 5 days a week at that time and watching my carbs/fats/ protein intake. I was in great shape.

My caution is that its very easy to go to the Dr. for something and walk out with a diagnosis that you didnt expect. Mental illness is also very very subjective. I think you could probably pin a mental illness on everyone at some point in their life. I know these people that shoot up places are fing crazy. No doubt but mental illness goes from getting nervous flying on planes all the way to one flew over the cuckoos nest. If we start blaming mental illness and removing firearms from people with them 1. people will stop seeking help. 2. a Dr. could easily catch you on a bad day and slap you with one possibly putting you on a no sell list or getting a visit from an alphabet agency.

Great post and definitely well thought out. After this FedEx shooting and a few others in states with red flag laws similar to ours. I can say they don't work and I'm pretty much turning my view of it back to getting rid of them. There is no due process as a few have illustrated and several shooting where the crazies should not have been allowed to buy legally the Feds allowed them too. Why have red flag laws and NICS checks they obviously do not work and are a hassle to law abiding citizens.

 

[bwframe]

I saw that. And my response may have been a bit of a push when not really intended to be.

Been a rough couple of days.

I need a drink.

But I dont drink anymore.

So now what.....

"BUTT"......I was referred to in that comment as the source...

Let's you and I not have a drink together then sir!

Your roll on INGO is just a little differerent than our friend here who used you as a prop to sell his argument. You have some very understandable cat herding latitude that the gentleman does not.

No ill will intended to the quoted fellow or the OP. Just pointing out that words matter and they were heard.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I see. Those that do not buy into you and the OP's narrative, mannerisms and politics are not adults.

Right...

KLB doesn’t buy into my narratives and politics. He push back fairly regularly. So yeah, there’s that.

 

[gregr]

Define pass.

It's up to 72 hrs, not has to be 72 hrs. I know someone that got one, they were back home before their coffee was cold. Well not really but close. I think they got it in the afternoon and were home in the evening if not sooner.

As for not returning the shotgun, this is the IMPD after all, no offense to any of our IMPD members. We had a member who had to get an attorney involved to get his legally owned firearm back, IIRC they took it after a car accident before he went into the ambulance. Something like that anyway. The property room has to test fire it and run the numbers to make sure it doesn't match any crime, and they have a backlog that is months long iirc. Then you have to get fingerprinted and they run them before they can return it. Then they have to get a supervisor/officer that confiscated to sign off on the return. Then you have to schedule a date to pick it up, and since they only have a couple of people working there...

I don't know if they Jake Laird him or not, I don't believe the hearings are public record due to the fact that it's "medical info". The Chief made a statement that he didn't know if they he had a hearing or not. And the Prosecutor either no commented or didn't return messages.

I wouldn't say it all depends, but it is a big factor. I've know people with good parents that turned out to be crap, and people with crap parents who turned out good. I knew a 13 yr old girl who was much more grown up than quite a few I knew that were in their 20s. To give you and idea of how crappy her parents were, when she was 7 or so she had to call her grandma because her younger brother wouldn't stop crying. He was still in diapers, she had been watching him for something like 4-5 days because her parents were out on a crack binge.

I have no direct experience, but from what I`ve read, what the authorities do in regards to NOT getting firearms back to their owners after being confiscated for ANY reason is nothing less than criminal. It`s unacceptable. Period.

 

[kickbacked]

Exactly.
When going through some serious Chemo/Radiation and looking at the stop watch they gave me (3 years.....4 max) right after the 2nd series my GP diagnosed me with clinical depression.
Well what the hell.......yeah I was scared to death and nervous as hell. He gave me some kind of anti-depressant that I took for maybe a week and the sides drove me nuts. Those went down the toilet. He was pissed but guess what....I was better off realizing my issue and doing something about it rather than rely on an outside source to save me.

Oh, yeah......that was in 02. so I should have been dead by 06.....

Glad you're still with us. I wish Dr's would look at the whole picture and like in your scenario say, "hey this guys dealing with cancer, is worried about passing, he doesnt have depression. He's rightfully upset over the current circumstances".

I worry that in the future they wont need to ban firearms. Because the Dr's give out these diagnosis like candy. If we shift blame so quickly to the broad subject of mental illness eventually most regular people wont even be able to buy firearms because at some point in life they got help or were wrongly diagnosed.

I think the same reason can be said for why marijuana hasnt been federally legalized despite liberals claiming they're all for it. How many states have legalized it? Yet I believe and I may be wrong, you cant purchase firearms if you smoke it. I think I remember something about Hawaii even going to homes where people had gotten medical mj cards and told them to turn in their firearms or something along those lines.

I guess these are conspiracy thoughts. But part of me believes the government doesnt need to ban firearms. They just need a reason why you shouldnt be able to buy one. With the strong push for government healthcare that has always been my concern. "Ya we'll pay for everything just tell us whats wrong with you". I think laws currently prohibit them looking but how long will that last and can you even trust that they aren't already doing it?

 

[thompal]

Verified behaviors from assorted agents of the .gov have made it clear that they consider anyone right of center an enemy.

I think the most vocal of the left considered anyone to the right of Stalin an enemy.

 

[churchmouse]

Glad you're still with us. I wish Dr's would look at the whole picture and like in your scenario say, "hey this guys dealing with cancer, is worried about passing, he doesnt have depression. He's rightfully upset over the current circumstances".

I worry that in the future they wont need to ban firearms. Because the Dr's give out these diagnosis like candy. If we shift blame so quickly to the broad subject of mental illness eventually most regular people wont even be able to buy firearms because at some point in life they got help or were wrongly diagnosed.

I think the same reason can be said for why marijuana hasnt been federally legalized despite liberals claiming they're all for it. How many states have legalized it? Yet I believe and I may be wrong, you cant purchase firearms if you smoke it. I think I remember something about Hawaii even going to homes where people had gotten medical mj cards and told them to turn in their firearms or something along those lines.

I guess these are conspiracy thoughts. But part of me believes the government doesnt need to ban firearms. They just need a reason why you shouldnt be able to buy one. With the strong push for government healthcare that has always been my concern. "Ya we'll pay for everything just tell us whats wrong with you". I think laws currently prohibit them looking but how long will that last and can you even trust that they aren't already doing it?

This is a solid power play. The medical profession has been given massive power over us and we have no way out. I believe it is all about dollars. Insurance and billable dollars.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I have no direct experience, but from what I`ve read, what the authorities do in regards to NOT getting firearms back to their owners after being confiscated for ANY reason is nothing less than criminal. It`s unacceptable. Period.

IMPD is bad, but I'm guessing they are the minority, at least in this state. And it's not the average officer, it's the command in charge of them. Where I live a guy got his guns confiscated, he was drunk, pissed, and his wife thought he was suicidal and call the cops. They could have taken him in for a 72 hr hold, they could have made him go to court to get them back. All they told him was call the chief in 3 days. He did, chief asked if he was feeling okay. Then asked when he could come in and pick them up. Guy went in signed a receipt and walked out with them.

Glad you're still with us. I wish Dr's would look at the whole picture and like in your scenario say, "hey this guys dealing with cancer, is worried about passing, he doesnt have depression. He's rightfully upset over the current circumstances".

I worry that in the future they wont need to ban firearms. Because the Dr's give out these diagnosis like candy. If we shift blame so quickly to the broad subject of mental illness eventually most regular people wont even be able to buy firearms because at some point in life they got help or were wrongly diagnosed.

I think the same reason can be said for why marijuana hasnt been federally legalized despite liberals claiming they're all for it. How many states have legalized it? Yet I believe and I may be wrong, you cant purchase firearms if you smoke it. I think I remember something about Hawaii even going to homes where people had gotten medical mj cards and told them to turn in their firearms or something along those lines.

I guess these are conspiracy thoughts. But part of me believes the government doesnt need to ban firearms. They just need a reason why you shouldnt be able to buy one. With the strong push for government healthcare that has always been my concern. "Ya we'll pay for everything just tell us whats wrong with you". I think laws currently prohibit them looking but how long will that last and can you even trust that they aren't already doing it?

Maybe slightly conspiracy, but IMO far far from tinfoil hat area. And quite possibly right. And nope if you use marijuana, even if a state that allows it, no guns for you. I know your right about the going to houses and being told they weren't allowed to have them, I've also heard of LE when finding out you have a med mj card informing nics about it so you can't purchase a firearm.

And in regards to mental illness about 1 in 5 people had it in 2019, almost half the population will have it in their lifetime. 1 in 20 were defined as a serious mental illness. And I've read studies that state that at least 50% of people could be diagnosed with a mental illness.

 

[thompal]

With the strong push for government healthcare that has always been my concern. "Ya we'll pay for everything just tell us whats wrong with you". I think laws currently prohibit them looking but how long will that last and can you even trust that they aren't already doing it?

With government healthcare, your medical records are in the government "system." If anyone believes that the government won't look at its own records to penalize the citizens it doesn't like is dreaming.

 

[JCSR]

This is a solid power play. The medical profession has been given massive power over us and we have no way out. I believe it is all about dollars. Insurance and billable dollars.

Where else do you go to get service with no idea what the cost will be? How have they pulled this off so long?

 

[churchmouse]

Where else do you go to get service with no idea what the cost will be? How have they pulled this off so long?

W allow it.
CKW (spouse) has been in and out of hospital soooooo many times that we are ready to do "Billing" battle every time. They are legal thieves and you have to watch every bill. I had the same issues when I had Cancer. We got billed for tests I never received by Drs I did not know.

 

[kickbacked]

So after this tragic event, put on my tinfoil hat, and wondered what the repercussions might be. Obviously, or moderator work hard trying to keep things in order, but they can’t possibly see everything. There have been times when some of us have crossed some lines based on frustration with the political climate. After this shooting, is it naive to think that sites such as ours wouldn’t, at least in the brief future, might start having little more traffic from folks trying to gauge the temperature in the local area? I don’t think it is, and think we should be mindful of it. Thoughts?

I got off topic but i agree with this and have tried practicing this a lot more than when I first joined the site years back. Its not even just police but local media. Theres a lot of stuff on here that could be twisted to look badly or pit people against each other. No need to give others ammo that would do us harm. Bad guys dont even need to be members here, they could easily have this site in their search history when they google where to buy armor in indiana or when the next gun show is.