Walmart vs LGS

[Libertarian01]

To All,

I am a bit biased. The only use I have decided to get out of Walmart is to take a dump at one when it is convenient.

I do not like Walmart. My feelings and thoughts are not against chain stores per se, but only Walmart.

Here is the damage Walmart will do to the firearms industry. When you become a supplier for Walmart they will negotiate a very low cost for them to buy the product, in return for a large guaranteed purchase order. This is not in itself unique to Walmart. What IS unique to Walmart is its massive size in doing so.

After a couple of years when the contract is up for renegotiation Walmart will normally demand a decrease in the price it is paying. Most suppliers will agree to this for two (2) basic reasons: #1) they are financially interested in maintaining the dependable high volume of sales to Walmart and, #2) they are able to reduce their costs by improving their own efficiency in a variety of ways. So far, no problem yet.

The problem occurs several contracts after the first one was signed. Walmart does NOT STOP demanding price reductions from suppliers. Once the manufacturers have improved efficiency as far as it can go there is only one place left to cut costs: quality!

Walmart is so huge that it can make demands on the suppliers as well, such as how many items are packaged per case. This effect may then travels downstream to other retailers who sell the product. Say a normal case of shotgun shells is 20 boxes. Now presume Walmart wants 50 boxes per case, so the manufacturer gives them what they want. Later, when the manufacturer is looking to cut costs (again) for Walmart they may decide to start selling by only one (1) size of case. This will indirectly hurt the LGS because it has a harder time affording to come up with that much money all at once, not to mention the fact that it doesn't pay the sweetheart price that Walmart does in the first place!

Some of the problems regarding Walmart are the manufacturers caving in to Walmarts demands, but as a manufacturer it can be hard, if not catastrophic, to watch 10 - 30% of your business just up and walk away.

Walmart may not have started this way. Walmart has good and decent people working there. However, their size and business model do far more damage than we can possibly imagine.

Here is a video. There are a lot of anecdotal stories, but some interesting facts as well.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jazb24Q2s94[/ame]

You can also read "The Wal-Mart Effect" by Charles Fishman.

Just my thoughts.

Regards,

Doug

 

[Patternpimp]

You think this procurement model only applies to Wal-Mart? The auto industry is no different to its suppliers. No one has to supply Wal-mart, they choose to enter into the relationship and they sure as heck know that Wal-Mart will be asking for cost reductions.

To All,

I am a bit biased. The only use I have decided to get out of Walmart is to take a dump at one when it is convenient.

I do not like Walmart. My feelings and thoughts are not against chain stores per se, but only Walmart.

Here is the damage Walmart will do to the firearms industry. When you become a supplier for Walmart they will negotiate a very low cost for them to buy the product, in return for a large guaranteed purchase order. This is not in itself unique to Walmart. What IS unique to Walmart is its massive size in doing so.

After a couple of years when the contract is up for renegotiation Walmart will normally demand a decrease in the price it is paying. Most suppliers will agree to this for two (2) basic reasons: #1) they are financially interested in maintaining the dependable high volume of sales to Walmart and, #2) they are able to reduce their costs by improving their own efficiency in a variety of ways. So far, no problem yet.

The problem occurs several contracts after the first one was signed. Walmart does NOT STOP demanding price reductions from suppliers. Once the manufacturers have improved efficiency as far as it can go there is only one place left to cut costs: quality!

Walmart is so huge that it can make demands on the suppliers as well, such as how many items are packaged per case. This effect may then travels downstream to other retailers who sell the product. Say a normal case of shotgun shells is 20 boxes. Now presume Walmart wants 50 boxes per case, so the manufacturer gives them what they want. Later, when the manufacturer is looking to cut costs (again) for Walmart they may decide to start selling by only one (1) size of case. This will indirectly hurt the LGS because it has a harder time affording to come up with that much money all at once, not to mention the fact that it doesn't pay the sweetheart price that Walmart does in the first place!

Some of the problems regarding Walmart are the manufacturers caving in to Walmarts demands, but as a manufacturer it can be hard, if not catastrophic, to watch 10 - 30% of your business just up and walk away.

Walmart may not have started this way. Walmart has good and decent people working there. However, their size and business model do far more damage than we can possibly imagine.

Here is a video. There are a lot of anecdotal stories, but some interesting facts as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jazb24Q2s94

You can also read "The Wal-Mart Effect" by Charles Fishman.

Just my thoughts.

Regards,

Doug

 

[Sailor]

If 10,000 ingo'ers boycotted Walmart it would have ZERO affect on their bottom line or affect any changes in the organization. If half that amount of people demanded changes at their local stores things would change.

Want bags of local wheat? Ask.
Organic meat? Ask
on, and on.

Some people in our economy can not afford NOT to shop at Walmart.

I will drive out of my way and pay more for a better product, if its available. If its not I have no problem buying at Walmart. I will ask them to carry it though.

 

[88E30M50]

The FACT is that they live paycheck to paycheck because they spend more than they earn, or more than they should.

How in the world is Walmart or any other private institution responsible for what they spend?!!


Last time I checked the only entity capable of directly taking money out of my account was the Government.

(this is in general - not directly to 88E30M50)
I hate getting into political debates - but I hate this more.
How about a little personal responsability in America? If you don't earn "enough," change the equation. Either spend less or get more. Its not rocket science.

Nothing is forever unless you let it be.

I'm not saying Walmart is responsible for what people spend, but they have impacted what they earn. By driving jobs offshore, they reduce the amount of money that circulates in a community. The local manufacturer that moving work offshore means fewer dollars available in that community. The dollars that used to get spent on groceries, shoes, bikes and lawnmowers are being sent offshore with the jobs. Sure, Walmart employs locals, but only a fraction of the number that were employed earlier.

I am in complete agreement in terms of individual responsibility. But, I do believe that if a company is responsible for offshoring work, they will have a net effect on the wages earned in the community in which they do business. They may not have a direct impact on what a family spends, but they may have a direct impact on what the family has available to spend.

 

[Sailor]

It is not Walmarts fault that manufacturing in the US has become more expensive.

 

[thekuhnburger]

I'm not saying Walmart is responsible for what people spend, but they have impacted what they earn. By driving jobs offshore, they reduce the amount of money that circulates in a community. The local manufacturer that moving work offshore means fewer dollars available in that community. The dollars that used to get spent on groceries, shoes, bikes and lawnmowers are being sent offshore with the jobs. Sure, Walmart employs locals, but only a fraction of the number that were employed earlier.

I am in complete agreement in terms of individual responsibility. But, I do believe that if a company is responsible for offshoring work, they will have a net effect on the wages earned in the community in which they do business. They may not have a direct impact on what a family spends, but they may have a direct impact on what the family has available to spend.

Maybe foreign countries are just better at manufacturing Walmart level quality goods.
In economics, it's called a competitive advantage. This is the case for many reasons, cost of living, minimum wage laws, tax advantages, etc. Maybe the problem is the "community" that you are referring to needs to find different skills. Crazy ideas I have, I know.

 

[nvb]

i don't really think wal-mart is a threat to the local gun shops. they only carry a few items and the wal-mart near me just stopped selling guns. i don't think i have ever seen a handgun for sale in a wal-mart. do to the amount they buy at a time wal-mart does take a lot of the ammo business away from the local gun shops because they can offer it at lower prices but i don't think they will be taking over gun sales anytime soon. places like bass pro shops or dicks are a much bigger threat to a small gunshop owner than wal-mart is right now

 

[Hohn]

You're right in theory. But once we let a competitor get too large that literally no one can compete it hurts the consumer. We become price takers with no price ceiling. It has not happened yet but it's on the verge. We cannot let WalMart going at the pace it is going. Eventually they will be the government.

I don't think this is true. First of all, if WMT sells guns, they aren't likely to be the real deal. They are likely to be a crappy knock off, like "HOTSHOT by Kimber". You can't price compare most WMT goods to other stores. You can't compare Levis at WMT to Levis from Target to Levis at the department store. Most of the time, those jeans were all made in different factories to different quality standards.

This is just the suppliers whoring out their brands at retailer request.

WMT is not the competitive juggernaut everyone seems to think it is. For one thing, do you think a truly knowledgeable gun guy or gunsmith is going to work for WMT? No- his knowledge and skill is too valuable to settle for WMT.

Do you buy tools there? No, most guys who know which end of a hammer to use will go to Sears or Lowe's or HD or Menard's or what have you. Why? Because WMT carries cheap crap and everyone knows it. If you just need a basic hammer and don't care much beyond that, then WMT is there for you. But if you actually appreciate what a well-designed quality tool made in USA feels like, then you can get an Estwing at many places (I tend to go to Rural King).

WMT has been selling groceries for a long time now. Yet, last I checked, Kroger and Marsh and such are still doing just fine.

As long as there are still a group of people that know the difference between price and value, WMT will not be the threat so many seem to think it is.

WMT sells bigscreens. They have yet to find a way to put other retailers out of the bigscreen business.

One could go on and on. The reality is that consumers benefit hugely from WMT, and so do other businesses (though they won't admit it) because it makes them better.

 

[Hohn]

I'm not saying Walmart is responsible for what people spend, but they have impacted what they earn. By driving jobs offshore, they reduce the amount of money that circulates in a community. The local manufacturer that moving work offshore means fewer dollars available in that community. The dollars that used to get spent on groceries, shoes, bikes and lawnmowers are being sent offshore with the jobs. Sure, Walmart employs locals, but only a fraction of the number that were employed earlier.

I am in complete agreement in terms of individual responsibility. But, I do believe that if a company is responsible for offshoring work, they will have a net effect on the wages earned in the community in which they do business. They may not have a direct impact on what a family spends, but they may have a direct impact on what the family has available to spend.

But you're missing the obvious point that by driving prices down, WMT is also making the wage a person earns go much further when they do spend it.

Does WMT drive down wages? Not categorically, no. Does it make sense that a doctor is paid less because WMT comes to town? Or that your local city employee is paid less because WMT comes to town?


From a proper perspective, WMT does not ever drive down wages. WMT is responding to customer demands in the marketplace. WMT sells Chinese junk because the consumers are demanding Chinese junk because they won't pay for better quality.

No one is forced to shop at WMT. If no one shopped there, WMT wouldn't exist.

 

[Hohn]

To All,

I am a bit biased. The only use I have decided to get out of Walmart is to take a dump at one when it is convenient.

I do not like Walmart. My feelings and thoughts are not against chain stores per se, but only Walmart.

Here is the damage Walmart will do to the firearms industry. When you become a supplier for Walmart they will negotiate a very low cost for them to buy the product, in return for a large guaranteed purchase order. This is not in itself unique to Walmart. What IS unique to Walmart is its massive size in doing so.

After a couple of years when the contract is up for renegotiation Walmart will normally demand a decrease in the price it is paying. Most suppliers will agree to this for two (2) basic reasons: #1) they are financially interested in maintaining the dependable high volume of sales to Walmart and, #2) they are able to reduce their costs by improving their own efficiency in a variety of ways. So far, no problem yet.

The problem occurs several contracts after the first one was signed. Walmart does NOT STOP demanding price reductions from suppliers. Once the manufacturers have improved efficiency as far as it can go there is only one place left to cut costs: quality!

Walmart is so huge that it can make demands on the suppliers as well, such as how many items are packaged per case. This effect may then travels downstream to other retailers who sell the product. Say a normal case of shotgun shells is 20 boxes. Now presume Walmart wants 50 boxes per case, so the manufacturer gives them what they want. Later, when the manufacturer is looking to cut costs (again) for Walmart they may decide to start selling by only one (1) size of case. This will indirectly hurt the LGS because it has a harder time affording to come up with that much money all at once, not to mention the fact that it doesn't pay the sweetheart price that Walmart does in the first place!

Some of the problems regarding Walmart are the manufacturers caving in to Walmarts demands, but as a manufacturer it can be hard, if not catastrophic, to watch 10 - 30% of your business just up and walk away.

Walmart may not have started this way. Walmart has good and decent people working there. However, their size and business model do far more damage than we can possibly imagine.



You can also read "The Wal-Mart Effect" by Charles Fishman.

Just my thoughts.

Regards,

Doug

But this is unlikely to happen in firearms. Very unlikely.

Firstly, every potential supplier knows that dealing with WMT is like dealing with the devil, and they may soon find that they have soon their soul (autonomy) for a short term gain. Look up the Wal-Mart pickle gallon and how it bankrupted Vlasic. Look up Huffy bikes and what they went through to deliver a $35 bicycle (the official world's chintziest bicycle).

My sister lives in NW Arkansas and has worked as a buyer for WMT and Sam's, and then left to go work for a supplier. If you are a supplier and you want to stay that way, then you WILL obey WMT commands. WMT will reach back into a company, change their processes and "improve" them to meet WMT's desires.

All that discussion about wmt controlling supplier is bang-on correct.


But few things can illustrate the high cost of a low price as drastically as a firearm. Do you think WMT would risk a huge lawsuit by marketing cost-reduced crappy guns? I dunno, that lawsuit could be huge. WMT being WMT, you know that any plaintiff will have no problem attracting a [STRIKE]shark[/STRIKE] lawyer to of the top tier once they smell blood and a big payday.


I would like to see Glocks at WMT because they could get Glock to drop the price down to $200 with no ding in quality. We all know Glocks are about the least expensive guns to make.


Anyway, I think WMT has peaked. They will struggle to attract top tier suppliers because the best supplier don't want their throats slit. WMT is and will continue to be the retailer of bottom feeders (in several senses, I'm afraid). But they will eventually run out of companies to feed off, because chewing through suppliers one after another is ultimately unsustainable (to use the word properly for a change).

At some point, WMT is going to have to start taking care of suppliers because it will otherwise not have goods to offer.


We rarely shop at WMT, and the only things we ever buy are commodities-- those things that are exactly the same from store to store (or so you think-- is your TIDE from WMT watered down relative to TIDE from Kroger?) Hmmm.

In the end, my primary beef with WMT is not the company, it's the clientele. Why are WMT bathrooms trashed in a new store faster than anyone else? Clientele. When I lived in Cheyenne, the new SuperCenter when from shiny new to ratty and trashed in just a few months. Why? Clientele.

WMT is the only place where I have experienced buying dishwasher soap or laundry soap and having it be heavily watered down. Why? Clientele. Some enterprising WMT customers figured out that they could use up most of a jug of dishwasher soap or laundry soap, fill it up with water, and then return it for a full refund. WMT restocks the watered down fraud of a product and you or I end buying the watered down crap. Why does this happen? Clientele.

I've come to appreciate Target more for the experience than the prices. It's the oddest thing how similar stores can have such vastly different experiences available to the consumer.

If I avoid WMT, I know I'm far less likely to see something offensive, get ripped off, waste my time, or end up arguing with an idiot.

 

[TopDog]

I'm not saying Walmart is responsible for what people spend, but they have impacted what they earn. By driving jobs offshore, they reduce the amount of money that circulates in a community. The local manufacturer that moving work offshore means fewer dollars available in that community. The dollars that used to get spent on groceries, shoes, bikes and lawnmowers are being sent offshore with the jobs. Sure, Walmart employs locals, but only a fraction of the number that were employed earlier.

I am in complete agreement in terms of individual responsibility. But, I do believe that if a company is responsible for offshoring work, they will have a net effect on the wages earned in the community in which they do business. They may not have a direct impact on what a family spends, but they may have a direct impact on what the family has available to spend.

There is a lot more driving jobs overseas than WalMart. Incentives from the government etc. Walmart is not the central cause of our economic woes, they are more of a symptom. The cause is greed and when you have a corrupt government assisting that drive of greed you end up with a decline.

 

[Robjps]

I would support LGS's if i could find one with supporting. Sorry I'm not big on over paying $200 on a pistol.

I see several id like to buy various things from on here all are 2+ hours away.

 

[thompal]

I am sure that a LGS can buy ammo and sell for the same price as Walmart and STILL make a profit, maybe not as much of a profit, but still a profit.

If this were the scenario, I would buy ALL of my ammo from my LGS. I am sure everyone I know would. This would = a large increase in ammo sales for the LGS and in turn = more profit. I have had a lot of experience in retail sales as a small business. I used to mark my stuff up high and make a larger profit per item. It didn't take me long to realize that doesn't work. I cut my profit in half and sold 5 times as much product. This earned me way more money than greed did.

I am not saying they should change their business plans, if it works for you run with it, but if it doesn't, adaptation is key to survival.

The problem is that Walmart probably sells their ammo for LESS than then LGS has to pay for it. Walmart has a LOT of say in what their suppliers charge them, simply because of the quantities that they order. You may remember that Walmart essentially forced a couple of (non-gun) companies to relocate to China simply to be able to supply Walmart at the price WM demanded.

 

[thumperdogg]

The problem is that Walmart probably sells their ammo for LESS than then LGS has to pay for it. Walmart has a LOT of say in what their suppliers charge them, simply because of the quantities that they order. You may remember that Walmart essentially forced a couple of (non-gun) companies to relocate to China simply to be able to supply Walmart at the price WM demanded.

Walmart didn't force anyone to do anything.

 

[jasonville43]

I have purchased my last two firearms at a LGS with the price being about $15-$25 more than I could have purchased the same thing online (including shiping and transfer fee) I purchased local because the people in the shop were awesome to deal with and their layaway program is outstanding!! I will have to agree about the ammo being high so for now most ammo purchases are done online because in most cases it is still cheaper than wal-mart if you buy in bulk!

 

[Roscoe38]

Why not? You still need a FFL transfer. They will be the only available. Ever seen a $100 transfer fee? You just might if only one person offers it. Supply and demand

I've never seen a transfer fee over $30 and never seen one under $20. (pure profit)

Some LGS will not transfer at all. Purely a spite attitude. Quote "if you don't buy it here ........and you all know the rest of the quote."

 

[Roscoe38]

There is a lot more driving jobs overseas than WalMart. Incentives from the government etc. Walmart is not the central cause of our economic woes, they are more of a symptom. The cause is greed and when you have a corrupt government assisting that drive of greed you end up with a decline.

Ever hear of N.A.F.T.A. That's where all our auto manufacturing jobs have gone. Build them in Mexico, China, Canada or where ever, and bring 'em back to the good old U.S.A. with no taxes or tariffs. That's our Government at work. Just a treaty to help the 3rd world and screw the American Auto worker, and I'm sure it applies to other manufactured items as well......And the List goes on.

 

[TopDog]

I have purchased my last two firearms at a LGS with the price being about $15-$25 more than I could have purchased the same thing online (including shiping and transfer fee) I purchased local because the people in the shop were awesome to deal with and their layaway program is outstanding!! I will have to agree about the ammo being high so for now most ammo purchases are done online because in most cases it is still cheaper than wal-mart if you buy in bulk!

I have never purchased a firearm online.

I also have never seen an online price within 15-20 bucks of the total cost of purchasing from a LGS. Might be that close before tax but once you add in tax for the total cost the LGS is usually significantly more that 20 bucks over.

I still dont purchase online as I have always done person to person or LGS and feel comfortable keeping the money local.

 

[Roscoe38]

I've had more intelligent conversations about guns at the local Walmart gun counter than I have at dealer tables at gun shows or at several gun shops. I've also seen much better safety as far as handling and passing a gun over the counter. If I had a penny for every time I've been muzzle swept in a gun shop, I'd probably be able to fill the a 5 gallon bucket. If we add a penny for each time I'm given some line of BS or completely false information, I'd be filling the bed of my truck.

+1

 

[Roscoe38]

I do not believe it is in any way improving consumers lives. The whole cycle of our basic economy is not being fulfilled. It offers low-paying, non-benefit jobs. In fact the majority of the people who work at WalMart end up turning around and putting most of their paycheck back into WalMart. How are we as a society of consumers gaining from that? I'm not forgetting anything. I'm talking WalMart putting out the LGS and/or online. An entrepreneur would have no way of starting up a LGS out of the blue and competing with WalMart.. no way possible.

When did Wal-Mart start selling handguns? All I have seen is long Guns.