very disturbing video that the gov. will do nothing about

[dburkhead]

You're right...I guess they really do hate us for our freedom... All along I thought it was because of our interference in their liberties. Thanks for setting me straight.

Strictly speaking, it's not "for our freedom" except incidentally. It's because we are not Islamic and do not acknowledge the supremacy of Islam.

The Western World went through the Enlightenment, where ideas such as the dignity of the Individual, the separation of Church and State, and Freedom of Conscience (of which Freedom of Religion is a subset) got their footing. Most of the Islamic world has unfortunately missed that.

 

[INRanger]

ha ha Thats funny you nailed him. You make me wish I could add mercenary scientist to my titles list. Though by strict corporate policy it would have to read "Private Military Contractor Scientist" Well said.

 

[Rattlesnake46319]

A question for the apologists on this thread - do you also support the reparations called for by Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton?

 

[Fletch]

A question for the apologists on this thread - do you also support the reparations called for by Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton?

I'm not an "apologist" for Islam, though I can't help thinking this may be addressed to me. In short, no. Reparations are a stupid idea that should be forgotten about.

I'm just saying that if we are genuinely in support of the idea that it is the individual, not their group identity, that matters most, we must apply that ideal to Muslims. As a hardcore libertarian, I am certainly pro-individual, but I can understand if there are those who are not.

 

[dburkhead]

I'm not an "apologist" for Islam, though I can't help thinking this may be addressed to me. In short, no. Reparations are a stupid idea that should be forgotten about.

I'm just saying that if we are genuinely in support of the idea that it is the individual, not their group identity, that matters most, we must apply that ideal to Muslims. As a hardcore libertarian, I am certainly pro-individual, but I can understand if there are those who are not.

Actually, I like the idea of reparations (bear with me for a moment). Lives have been disrupted and harm has been done because people were forcibly uprooted from their home and transported to a different country.

Therefore, we should take the mean (or median--either way will work) income from the home countries of these people and the mean/median income from the decendents of these people between that time and now and that is the amount of reparations that should be paid.

Even counting the time when most of the uprooted folk would have been slaves, and thus had 0 income (or close to it) I think this would just about pay for the Porkulus bill.

 

[INRanger]

One of the first lessons you learn in the military is that an individual alone is nothing more than a nuisance. But a group of dedicated people willing to fight and die for what the believe in is of limitless potential. Make no mistake that is what we face. Only by standing together can we expect any sort of victory. We either stand as one or die alone.

 

[Spot Me 2]

So if BO has his way, The terrorist will be kinder to us because they will have no fear of being captured by us????? We will treat them better then we treat our own.

Will they stop beheaded their INNOCENT captives then, dismember their bodies and display them for all to see??? Or does it mean they will just use a sharper knife next time?? Give me a break. We live in very different times now. People who behead their wives, because they have been disrespected by them, don't understand a strong talking to. You cannot talk things through!!!. By all means, go and try. They will be happy to show you just how right I am.

And this is not the first time the US has used "torture". It's just the first time people have their heads so far up their own a$$, and have such a hatered for their own country, that it is actually being reported

 

[INRanger]

So if BO has his way, The terrorist will be kinder to us because they will have no fear of being captured by us????? We will treat them better then we treat our own.

Will they stop beheaded their INNOCENT captives then, dismember their bodies and display them for all to see??? Or does it mean they will just use a sharper knife next time?? Give me a break. We live in very different times now. People who behead their wives, because they have been disrespected by them, don't understand a strong talking to. You cannot talk things through!!!. By all means, go and try. They will be happy to show you just how right I am.

And this is not the first time the US has used "torture". It's just the first time people have their heads so far up their own a$$, and have such a hatered for their own country, that it is actually being reported

You sir are a patriot.

 

[finity]

I'm sure the jihadi's will appreciate your understanding while the kill more civilians. Whether you agree with how we got into this situation or not you need to accept we are in this together now. It may be your family that is killed in the next attack, how understanding will you be then? These people don't want liberty or to be left alone, they want to exterminate us and our way of life that includes you bone heads. You may not have had a hand in picking this fight but your in it now. Either accept it, pick up arms and stand shoulder to shoulder with your fellow Americans or apply for Swiss citezenship and shut up.

How exactly can you expect everybody to be happy about being manipulated into this "fight" as you call it? Sure we may have to fight to defend ourselves but we don't have to like it & we have every right to be pissed at the people who got us here, which is why they got voted out of office.

If there are new terrorist attacks & my family are hurt then I'm supposed to be OK that we as a country had at least a little to do with it?

You know maybe they see our acts as destroying them & their way of life as well. How many islamic terrorist attacks did we have against the US before we built a US base in Saudi Arabia? How many third world repressive dictators has the US & our western allies supported because it was to our advantage? We kept Saddam in power until he went against our wishes & then all of a sudden we get all self-righteous on him.

The whole "USA, Love it or Leave It" mindset is so 60's. There are a lot of veterans who have stood "shoulder to shoulder" with their fellow military members that don't like this crap that we're in now, too. I guess they (I) don't have a right to voice their (my) views because they (I) don't agree with yours or that of the LAST administration? This is my country just as much as it is yours, so no, I'm not going to shut-up.

You think you're a patriot just because you hate Muslims? Hate is easy. You think its hard for the KKK to hate Jews or blacks. Nope. Hate is easy, all it takes is ignorance.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think that the world will be a bed of roses if we stop our empire-building, but at least we will have the moral high ground in defending ourselves & we won't have handed them a reason on a silver platter.

 

[INRanger]

I never said hating muslims made you a patriot. I spend more time there than I do here I understand their culture. That understanding is what drives my belief that this is a fight we have got to fight. I don't give a rats ass if you like it or not but as the old saying goes your either a part of the solution or a part of the problem. I'm a Jew so I am very cognizant of hate. I know it when I see it and believe me when I tell you that you have never seen a hatred like theirs. They hate you every bit as much as they hate me.

 

[INRanger]

finity just gave me negative rep must have hurt his feelings. I'm glad I'm not his neighbor so I don't have to listen to him crying his self to sleep tonight.

 

[HICKMAN]

Keep in mind how the Sharia law came into power...yep, we enabled it. Then we occupied their "Holy Lands" as part of our corporate empire-building (Oil...).

Well, their Holy Lands are our Holy Lands as well. Ishmael and Isaac both came from Abraham...

And pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease, show me one drop of oil....

 

[HICKMAN]

finity just gave me negative rep must have hurt his feelings. I'm glad I'm not his neighbor so I don't have to listen to him crying his self to sleep tonight.

 

[Spot Me 2]

finity just gave me negative rep must have hurt his feelings. I'm glad I'm not his neighbor so I don't have to listen to him crying his self to sleep tonight.

Some peolple will just never get it. He can be the first to go over and talk things out with them. I don't every remember saying anything about any group of people other then terrorist. He is the one who put the "muslim" lable on that!

 

[INRanger]

Some peolple will just never get it. He can be the first to go over and talk things out with them. I don't every remember saying anything about any group of people other then terrorist. He is the one who put the "muslim" lable on that!

I'm just amazed that I managed to hi a nerve without a spine to guide me.

 

[INRanger]

Thanks guys I'm sorry I'm out or I would hit ya back. My bad.