Uvalde Massacre - AWB 2.0

[two70]

It should not be this hard either.

You would want it to be even more difficult if you were on the other side. Do you really want an ex spouse or anyone else with an axe to grind having the ability to have you committed and your rights taken away with little more than their word?

 

[Ingomike]

You would want it to be even more difficult if you were on the other side. Do you really want an ex spouse or anyone else with an axe to grind having the ability to have you committed and your rights taken away with little more than their word?

Strawman, we are discussing kids shooting up schools that parents and guardians are not getting the help they need and the kid ends up killing them first…

I noted above the need for caution…

 

[two70]

Strawman, we are discussing kids shooting up schools that parents and guardians are not getting the help they need and the kid ends up killing them first…

I noted above the need for caution…

Are you so arrogant to think that it couldn't happen to you?

Or are you just so desperate to perpetuate an argument?

 

[MCgrease08]

Senators are "huddling" to see what can be done, including the usual group of RINO squishes.

Manchin: Bipartisan Senate group meeting tonight to discuss gun-control ideas

hotair.com

 

[Ingomike]

Are you so arrogant to think that it couldn't happen to you?

Or are you just so desperate to perpetuate an argument?

Do you even read what is posted?

 

[SheepDog4Life]

It is extremely easy to get one's self committed for a short stay in a mental health facility. All someone has to do is show up in front of a relatively competent medical professional and tell them that they have a plan to harm themselves or others. This is frequently abused by people that view a stay in such a facility as a vacation from their life. Often these people will "check" themselves in dozens of times per year, almost always at taxpayer expense.

It is and should be much harder to get someone else committed, especially long term commitments. Bipolar people are rarely a serious threat to others and would be highly unlikely to meet criteria for long term commitment. Relatively few types of mental illness require long term commitment and even fewer mentally ill people are a danger to others. The problem is that many of the mentally ill people that are potentially dangerous to others have types of illness that allow them to function at relatively high levels and conceal that illness from others until it is too late. Even when those types do fail to completely conceal their mental illness, they are all too often not taken seriously.

Or we can continue doing as we have, ignore the problem until the mentally ill person commits a violent crime against others and is incarcerated instead. (Or kills themselves or does something that gets themselves killed)

According to the data below, for Indiana the severely mentally ill are 2.6 times as likely to be in PRISON as in a mental health treatment facility, either by choice or involuntarily.

Indiana - Treatment Advocacy Center

Every state has different laws and policies around accessing treatment for severe mental illness (SMI) and some states have more resources and treatment options than others. Here you will find state-specific resources for navigating the SMI treatment system, civil commitment laws and an...

www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org

 

[two70]

Do you even read what is posted?

Those were rhetorical questions, the answers are abundantly clear.

 

[Jaybird1980]

With the shooting in NY by a white racist, Brandon was screaming domestic terrorism. In Texas with a non white there is no cry of domestic terrorism. What is the difference?

Because whites are the biggest threat to the country silly, their mere existence is a national security risk.

This Hispanic guy in Texas just had “internalized white supremacy” so he had to go shoot up a school or something. White people have to ruin everything!

Slow down, there's still plenty of time to shift the focus.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Slow down, there's still plenty of time to shift the focus.

Uh, yeah Barack, we won't forget that any time soon since we watched our country burn for the better part of a year over the death of a drug dealing scumbag. Thanks, and FU2.

 

[two70]

Or we can continue doing as we have, ignore the problem until the mentally ill person commits a violent crime against others and is incarcerated instead. (Or kills themselves or does something that gets themselves killed)

According to the data below, for Indiana the severely mentally ill are 2.6 times as likely to be in PRISON as in a mental health treatment facility, either by choice or involuntarily.

Indiana - Treatment Advocacy Center

Every state has different laws and policies around accessing treatment for severe mental illness (SMI) and some states have more resources and treatment options than others. Here you will find state-specific resources for navigating the SMI treatment system, civil commitment laws and an...

www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org

Exactly how far are you willing to go to ensure no mentally ill people have an opportunity to harm others? How much freedom should people be willing to sacrifice for that goal? Are you really willing to not only trust but enable politicians, the same ones we spend significant time complaining and worrying about, to make laws that make it easier to have people they disagree with committed?

If the target were firearms ownership, it's clear where most here would stand on those questions but change the target to mental illness and so many are not only willing to give away freedom but eager to do so. And for what? Is it simply a need to do something no matter how futile and pointless? Is it the sacrificial lamb in an attempt to deflect from 2A freedoms to those less valued? Wouldn't it be much more productive to spend the time and effort figuring out how to transform schools into much more difficult and far less attractive targets for these murderers?

Or is it simple ignorance? Do people not understand that there are 10's of millions of Americans with diagnosed mental health illnesses and likely many more that are undiagnosed? That many of these people need some form of medication to function? Or that tiny fractions of a percent of these people, medicated or not, are a danger to anyone?

 

[TrueSeanamus]

Slow down, there's still plenty of time to shift the focus.

LMAO. I can’t believe people are still pushing this garbage. He was high as a kite from swallowing a bunch of drugs when the cops rolled up, old fentanyl Floyd was saying he couldn’t breathe before he was even on the ground! And the only reason he was on the ground was because he was fighting the cops who were being exceptionally restrained against him the whole time. They never even hit or tazed him, they pinned him to the ground after he forced his way back out of the back of the police SUV. They had called for an ambulance and were waiting on it to arrive while he was on the ground and died (most likely from respitory failure or cardiac arrest from having several times the lethal dose of fentanyl and some other drug in his system)

And now he’s a saint to the left despite being a total garbage fire of a human being. We truly live laugh and love in clown world.

 

[Jaybird1980]

LMAO. I can’t believe people are still pushing this garbage. He was high as a kite from swallowing a bunch of drugs when the cops rolled up, old fentanyl Floyd was saying he couldn’t breathe before he was even on the ground! And the only reason he was on the ground was because he was fighting the cops who were being exceptionally restrained against him the whole time. They never even hit or tazed him, they pinned him to the ground after he forced his way back out of the back of the police SUV. They had called for an ambulance and were waiting on it to arrive while he was on the ground and died (most likely from respitory failure or cardiac arrest from having several times the lethal dose of fentanyl and some other drug in his system)

And now he’s a saint to the left despite being a total garbage fire of a human being. We truly live laugh and love in clown world.

I really do hope that asteroid is getting close.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Exactly how far are you willing to go to ensure no mentally ill people have an opportunity to harm others? How much freedom should people be willing to sacrifice for that goal? Are you really willing to not only trust but enable politicians, the same ones we spend significant time complaining and worrying about, to make laws that make it easier to have people they disagree with committed?

If the target were firearms ownership, it's clear where most here would stand on those questions but change the target to mental illness and so many are not only willing to give away freedom but eager to do so. And for what? Is it simply a need to do something no matter how futile and pointless? Is it the sacrificial lamb in an attempt to deflect from 2A freedoms to those less valued? Wouldn't it be much more productive to spend the time and effort figuring out how to transform schools into much more difficult and far less attractive targets for these murderers?

Or is it simple ignorance? Do people not understand that there are 10's of millions of Americans with diagnosed mental health illnesses and likely many more that are undiagnosed? That many of these people need some form of medication to function? Or that tiny fractions of a percent of these people, medicated or not, are a danger to anyone?

Erm... reading comprehension issue?

"SEVERELY MENTALLY ILL"

Or battle your own strawmen...

 

[Jaybird1980]

Erm... reading comprehension issue?

"SEVERELY MENTALLY ILL"

Or battle your own strawmen...

The problem is the definition of severely mentally ill, whatever that is, it's easily changed.

 

[Ingomike]

The problem is the definition of severely mentally ill, whatever that is, it's easily changed.

As stated above, we were discussing school age children with mental problems before some changed the subject. There is a balance, as a country we have been to both extremes. I acknowledged that dictators use mental illness against their enemies. We were talking about kids whose parents were trying to get help for out of control kids and none came and now they are shot or dead because of it.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

The problem is the definition of severely mentally ill, whatever that is, it's easily changed.

Does attempting to stab someone qualify?

I have second hand knowledge (first hand account from the father) where the only options were:

1) short-term observation, I forget if it was 48 or 72 hours, during which they were forced/coerced to take their meds and released, or

2) press charges and put their minor child in jail.

Once out, no more meds, rinse, repeat until they're 18 years old... or attempt/succeed in violence against someone who will press charges.

 

[Jaybird1980]

As stated above, we were discussing school age children with mental problems before some changed the subject. There is a balance, as a country we have been to both extremes. I acknowledged that dictators use mental illness against their enemies. We were talking about kids whose parents were trying to get help for out of control kids and none came and now they are shot or dead because of it.

Does attempting to stab someone qualify?

I have second hand knowledge (first hand account from the father) where the only options were:

1) short-term observation, I forget if it was 48 or 72 hours, during which they were forced/coerced to take their meds and released, or

2) press charges and put their minor child in jail.

Once out, no more meds, rinse, repeat until they're 18 years old... or attempt/succeed in violence against someone who will press charges.

I agree that it should be easier for parents to get kids help that actually need it. I also understand that if you give the system a weapon they will also use it against you.

 

[DragonGunner]

I really liked this guy until now. He is in the mental health profession and has just used it and his liberal agenda to pretty much call the TX Governor and gun owners "narcissists". He insults and invalidates the 2A into something its not. The guy is as bad as Steve Kerr and others.....the sad part is he shows what a hypocrite he is on his program by attacking, lying, manipulating and invalidating and using his profession as a means...showing that the guy who teaches about narcissism may very well be one himself. He could at least educate himself a little bit before speaking. My guess he has never shot a gun and never talked to a gun owner....but he is the expert on how to stop killing.

 

[Ingomike]

Does attempting to stab someone qualify?

I have second hand knowledge (first hand account from the father) where the only options were:

1) short-term observation, I forget if it was 48 or 72 hours, during which they were forced/coerced to take their meds and released, or

2) press charges and put their minor child in jail.

Once out, no more meds, rinse, repeat until they're 18 years old... or attempt/succeed in violence against someone who will press charges.

This is the norm and I believe the story of sandy hook and park view also…

 

[SheepDog4Life]

This is the norm and I believe the story of sandy hook and park view also…

Yes, and after she turned 18, he no longer had option 1 as a parental right.