Two bodies found in Carroll County

[Alamo]

I expected fast, but this is FAST. Attorneys reinstated- all other requested relief denied.

I guess they read Manifest Destiny’s post.

also, doesn’t that put the original attorneys in the same court room with the judge who tried to kickthem out? That’s going to be interesting…

 

[HoughMade]

...doesn’t that put the original attorneys in the same court room with the judge who tried to kickthem out? That’s going to be interesting…

Yes it does. We will have to see what the opinion says, but based on the questioning, I believe the majority would say that there was not enough of a record, that is, evidence was not presented and no hearing was held. I would tend to agree. Unless the opinion says otherwise (and I doubt it will), if the Judge wants to continue with this (big "if") she can schedule a hearing and make a real record about disqualification with actual evidence and argument.

 

[HoughMade]

Keep in mind that the defendant still has a right to a "speedy trial" and Indiana has a statute that lays out what a "speedy trial" means here. There are exceptions and "time outs". However, if the judge wants to pursue the disqualification of counsel (my guess is that she does not immediately unless there is additional information gathered) then she can set a hearing, but she still needs to be mindful of the "speedy trial" statute. There is not automatic delay for this.

 

[DragonGunner]

Keep in mind that the defendant still has a right to a "speedy trial" and Indiana has a statute that lays out what a "speedy trial" means here. There are exceptions and "time outs". However, if the judge wants to pursue the disqualification of counsel (my guess is that she does not immediately unless there is additional information gathered) then she can set a hearing, but she still needs to be mindful of the "speedy trial" statute. There is not automatic delay for this.

Well…. Maybe since he didn’t have a speedy arrest (5 years) maybe a speedy trial can be over looked. I doubt he is in a hurry to get to a federal prison. Any hope for a death sentence penalty in this case?

 

[injb]

In going to these lengths to get the team reinstated, has Allen effectively waived any chance he would have of appealing a conviction later based on ineffective counsel? At least, I'm assuming he won't be able to claim that based on the stuff they have done so far?

 

[HoughMade]

Well…. Maybe since he didn’t have a speedy arrest (5 years) maybe a speedy trial can be over looked. I doubt he is in a hurry to get to a federal prison. Any hope for a death sentence penalty in this case?

The defense specifically stated during the argument that obtaining a "speedy trial" was part of their strategy so they could catch the prosecution "on its heals". While this has been a strategy for a long time, it's now known as the OJ strategy.

Well, they are doing the complete OJ. Throw out a crazy theory with bad actors everywhere then get to trial as soon as possible so the prosecution doesn't have time to gather the evidence to disprove the crazy theory.

 

[HoughMade]

In going to these lengths to get the team reinstated, has Allen effectively waived any chance he would have of appealing a conviction later based on ineffective counsel? At least, I'm assuming he won't be able to claim that based on the stuff they have done so far?

Based upon anything that counsel has done to date that he knows about, yes, I think he has waived that argument.

 

[HoughMade]

Prosecutor now seeking to add charges for kidnapping. Kidnapping was previously included as an enhancement to the murder charge, but was not charged independently. No real new facts needed to prove the charge. The amendment adding the kidnapping charges will probably be allowed.

 

[printcraft]

 

[Alamo]

Prosecutor now seeking to add charges for kidnapping. Kidnapping was previously included as an enhancement to the murder charge, but was not charged independently. No real new facts needed to prove the charge. The amendment adding the kidnapping charges will probably be allowed.

Is this a back up plan? is the prosecutor thinking that he’s pretty sure he can get a kidnapping conviction, but Odinmania might derail the murder conviction?

 

[Hawkeye]

Well…. Maybe since he didn’t have a speedy arrest (5 years) maybe a speedy trial can be over looked. I doubt he is in a hurry to get to a federal prison. Any hope for a death sentence penalty in this case?

Federal prison? THis is a State (of Indiana) charge/trial. How does Federal prison figure into this?

 

[HoughMade]

Is this a back up plan? is the prosecutor thinking that he’s pretty sure he can get a kidnapping conviction, but Odinmania might derail the murder conviction?

I don't see how Allen would be involved in kidnapping, but not involved in the murders. His claim seems to be that he had no involvement whatsoever. Maybe it's to add a "compromise" verdict...but I don't know how that would work factually.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I expected fast, but this is FAST. Attorneys reinstated- all other requested relief denied.

Question asked below.

Keep in mind that the defendant still has a right to a "speedy trial" and Indiana has a statute that lays out what a "speedy trial" means here. There are exceptions and "time outs". However, if the judge wants to pursue the disqualification of counsel (my guess is that she does not immediately unless there is additional information gathered) then she can set a hearing, but she still needs to be mindful of the "speedy trial" statute. There is not automatic delay for this.

My question is with his request to start trial in 70 days and the denial of said request how that will effect speedy trial? I'm being too lazy to look up the statute. And could this open up the possibility of a federal civil rights lawsuit in regards to the constitutional right to speedy trial?

 

[HoughMade]

Question asked below.

My question is with his request to start trial in 70 days and the denial of said request how that will effect speedy trial? I'm being too lazy to look up the statute. And could this open up the possibility of a federal civil rights lawsuit in regards to the constitutional right to speedy trial?

Honestly, I'm too lazy to look it up as well. I will say this- the real question is whether there is the compliance with state law. By not ordering trial in 70 days, the Sup Ct is simply allowing the judge to manage the case and set a trial according to her understanding of the application of the statute. If she's right or wrong, that is a matter for appeal if there is a guilty verdict.

While there is a Constitutional "speedy trial" right, what a "speedy trial" is under federal law is somewhat amorphous. It is a matter of math under the state statute. A violation of state statute does not necessarily make a constitutional violation.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Honestly, I'm too lazy to look it up as well. I will say this- the real question is whether there is the compliance with state law. By not ordering trial in 70 days, the Sup Ct is simply allowing the judge to manage the case and set a trial according to her understanding of the application of the statute. If she's right or wrong, that is a matter for appeal if there is a guilty verdict.

While there is a Constitutional "speedy trial" right, what a "speedy trial" is under federal law is somewhat amorphous. It is a matter of math under the state statute. A violation of state statute does not necessarily make a constitutional violation.

Thank you much my good Barrister. And yeah I'm guessing that speedy trial doesn't often come up in your specific profession.

 

[DragonGunner]

Federal prison? THis is a State (of Indiana) charge/trial. How does Federal prison figure into this?

Guess thats what I was thinking, still worse than a county jail. Maybe I was thinking kidnapping....but think that has to cross state lines maybe? I'm not a lawyer....just interested in the case.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Guess thats what I was thinking, still worse than a county jail. Maybe I was thinking kidnapping....but think that has to cross state lines maybe? I'm not a lawyer....just interested in the case.

From my non lawyer understanding, kidnapping to be a federal case has to cross state lines or involve the feds in some other manner. Kidnapping a fed employee or spouse, child, etc in relation to their employment. Or similar.

That is what really had me wondering about this case in the first place. FBI on the scene before the girls were found. Well that and I live 20ish minutes away, best time was under 10 but if a LEO would have seen me it most likely have been jail rather than a ticket.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Guess thats what I was thinking, still worse than a county jail. Maybe I was thinking kidnapping....but think that has to cross state lines maybe? I'm not a lawyer....just interested in the case.

Forgot to put this in my response. Depends on the prison, and cell block, etc compared to the same with county jail. This is from someone who has never been in prison, but have talked to several of those who have, and have spent time myself in my youth in more than one county jail.

 

[Hawkeye]

Guess thats what I was thinking, still worse than a county jail. Maybe I was thinking kidnapping....but think that has to cross state lines maybe? I'm not a lawyer....just interested in the case.

IIRC, he was held in the Michigan City STATE Prison for at least part of the time since his arrest. So he's been held both in STATE and County facilities. My thought is htat Federal facilities are, maybe(?), better/nicer than STATE or local. But I have no direct knowledge of either system. Federal, I guess he could be sent anywhare in the Federal system; whereas, he would be generally limited to Indiana locations in the State system.

 

[mike trible]

Maybe put him in Epstein's old cell.