Two bodies found in Carroll County

[DragonGunner]

I'm pretty sure they are looking for a Kegan Kline connection. Perhaps (pure speculation) using this to pressure Allen to talk and establish the connection.

Maybe pressure to take a death penalty off the table. That’s how I would play it…….see if he decides it’s not worth a trial.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I'd be curious to know if they found ammo along with the gun at Allen's house. It would be something if they found ammo that was the same brand as the round picked up at the scene.

I seem to remember reading about a case where samples of lead from bullets found at a crime scene were analyzed along with samples from bullets pulled from unspent cartridges in a suspect's possession. The analyses showed the relative amounts of different metals in the alloy, which is fairly unique for each batch of lead. That data was then used to match the bullets.

If they did find ammo at Allen's house, and if it is possible to prove that the bullets were all from a given manufacture lot, that might be more compelling than the "extractor mark match".

 

[CHCRandy]

You guys make a good point. Maybe they didn't want this to be unsealed so Kegan couldn't see it?

Did it say in there how Allen said he walked back to where he parked? Did it say if they ever checked his car for DNA? Where is that car today ? He had to knife these girls....if there was that much blood involved.

Makes me sick to think how the father must feel.....knowing he was on that trail looking for his daughter while the murderer was sneaking back to his car. 15-20 minutes earlier.....and who knows? And if the suspect walked down the county road, bloody and muddy.....was he not seen on that Harvestore camera?

 

[BigRed]

I assume they are matching scratches from the extractor and on the brass where the bullet mates into the chamber but wow, I never even considered that they could do this. Wonder what the confidence level is on this kind of matching.

Probably something like this...

 

[jd4320t]

If the bodies were moved why would there be a live round where they were moved to?

 

[Alamo]

… He knows cars and is accurate at this. Others...oh boy....a silver minivan is called a white SUV.

I’ve had a minor amount of experience with witness statements during my Air Force career, and I remember my own, altho it wasn’t an Air Force incident.

On my second to last day in Germany before PCSing back to the big BX, I witnessed an auto accident in my little village. It scared me not only because I came very close to being involved in it, but I also sold my car and was taking it to drop off with the new owner. A very speedy Frau collided head-on with a delivery truck, narrowly missing me in the process.

I got out to check, the two drivers were OK, but I remember the resigned look on the delivery van driver’s face as the woman screamed at him non-stop.

I stood back and pulled out my notepad and made a sketch of the accident scene, and wrote down descriptions of the vehicles and the drivers. Pretty soon a cop showed up and when I got a chance to talk to him he didn’t speak a lot of English and I didn’t speak a lot of German but he got across to me that he wanted me to go to the local police station and make a statement.

So I met with a police sergeant who spoke pretty good English who had a official interpreter as well. He asked me what I saw and I told him, showed my sketch, and then he asked me some questions.

His last question was “what color was the woman’s car?”

And I was astounded that I could not remember. I looked at my notes and I had written down everything about the car except the color. I told him I was really sorry, I couldn’t believe that I couldn’t remember, but the only thing I did remember color-wise was that it was dirty.

When he was officially finished with the statement. I said so tell me, what was the color of the car? He laughed and said it was a silver gray.

I later read someplace that if you write down details of something, it will help you remember those details, but you’re likely to forget altogether the things that you didn’t write down.

Anyway, between that and some other experiences I learned not to take witness statements as gospel truth, To cross check everything.

 

[Cameramonkey]

If the bodies were moved why would there be a live round where they were moved to?

Easy.

Cycles slide, round falls.
Picks up round, puts it in shirt pocket.
Carries body and bends over to put it down.
While bent over, bullet falls out and he doesnt notice.
And maybe he even forgot he put it in his shirt pocket? He would have had a LOT on his mind, after all.

Ive had this happen to me. (the bending over and an item falling out of your shirt pocket. without the murder of course)

 

[HoughMade]

Probably something like this...

"My Cousin Vinny" is almost a documentary of my legal career...I'm the lawyer played by Austin Pendleton.

 

[BigRed]

"My Cousin Vinny" is almost a documentary of my legal career...I'm the lawyer played by Austin Pendleton.

One of my favorite movies...lots of humor with lots of truth.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

If the bodies were moved why would there be a live round where they were moved to?

I don't think the bodies were moved to the place that they were found, just moved after death in the same place to stage/arrange/pose them. But that is what I got from the FBI search warrant affidavit, it stated that the girls lost a lot of blood at the crime scene and that the crime scene was 1400 ft from Logan's house. Which is where they were found, so I'm assuming that the crime scene and where they were found is the same. At least that is how I understand it, I could be wrong though.

Easy.

Cycles slide, round falls.
Picks up round, puts it in shirt pocket.
Carries body and bends over to put it down.
While bent over, bullet falls out and he doesnt notice.
And maybe he even forgot he put it in his shirt pocket? He would have had a LOT on his mind, after all.

Ive had this happen to me. (the bending over and an item falling out of your shirt pocket. without the murder of course)

Or this.

 

[DragonGunner]

I’ve had a minor amount of experience with witness statements during my Air Force career, and I remember my own, altho it wasn’t an Air Force incident.

On my second to last day in Germany before PCSing back to the big BX, I witnessed an auto accident in my little village. It scared me not only because I came very close to being involved in it, but I also sold my car and was taking it to drop off with the new owner. A very speedy Frau collided head-on with a delivery truck, narrowly missing me in the process.

I got out to check, the two drivers were OK, but I remember the resigned look on the delivery van driver’s face as the woman screamed at him non-stop.

I stood back and pulled out my notepad and made a sketch of the accident scene, and wrote down descriptions of the vehicles and the drivers. Pretty soon a cop showed up and when I got a chance to talk to him he didn’t speak a lot of English and I didn’t speak a lot of German but he got across to me that he wanted me to go to the local police station and make a statement.

So I met with a police sergeant who spoke pretty good English who had a official interpreter as well. He asked me what I saw and I told him, showed my sketch, and then he asked me some questions.

His last question was “what color was the woman’s car?”

And I was astounded that I could not remember. I looked at my notes and I had written down everything about the car except the color. I told him I was really sorry, I couldn’t believe that I couldn’t remember, but the only thing I did remember color-wise was that it was dirty.

When he was officially finished with the statement. I said so tell me, what was the color of the car? He laughed and said it was a silver gray.

I later read someplace that if you write down details of something, it will help you remember those details, but you’re likely to forget altogether the things that you didn’t write down.

Anyway, between that and some other experiences I learned not to take witness statements as gospel truth, To cross check everything.

Many years ago I watched a college professor tell this story to a group of students….he one day came out on stage to about 100 students when during his teaching a man ran out and attacked him and did things and ran off…. The students were shocked. The teacher said for everyone to write down what they saw. It was amazing what these college students wrote. Almost nobody got anything right. Attacker was fat, was thin, was tall, was shirt, was young, was older. Had a gun, had a club, had a knife, used his bare hands, had blue jeans on, had black slacks on…… this the professed used to show the students how unreliable a eyewitness can truly be even when right there and seeing something….the brain can do strange things.

 

[Mij]

Ah, ha. The ol’ clerical error defense. For the investigation team that is. Fox 59 @ 6:30

 

[injb]

You guys make a good point. Maybe they didn't want this to be unsealed so Kegan couldn't see it?

...

I think you're on to something there. I can't think of a single reason why there was any need to seal this from the public. Obviously anyone connected to the case would have gotten rid of whatever evidence they could as soon as the arrest was announced. Maybe they wanted KK to think the PC was connected to him.

During the press conference, someone asked Doug Carter about KK. He said something like "that's part of the evidence, I can't talk about that". This was taken to imply that there was something in the PC about KK. Was that deliberate?

 

[actaeon277]

"My Cousin Vinny" is almost a documentary of my legal career...I'm the lawyer played by Austin Pendleton.

Are you sure it's not...

 

[DragonGunner]

Ah, ha. The ol’ clerical error defense. For the investigation team that is. Fox 59 @ 6:30

I saw that, they said they are reaching out to the FBI for comment. I just didn’t understand it. Sounds like FBI interviewed him. Wrote down he was there at time of murders and then filed it wrong and everyone else thought he had been cleared…..? Nobody on that entire police force had no ideal he had made a statement he was there on that day? Is the news station pulling my leg?

 

[bwframe]

Murder podcast folks discussing this on Hammer And Nigel now...

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[Mij]

I saw that, they said they are reaching out to the FBI for comment. I just didn’t understand it. Sounds like FBI interviewed him. Wrote down he was there at time of murders and then filed it wrong and everyone else thought he had been cleared…..? Nobody on that entire police force had no ideal he had made a statement he was there on that day? Is the news station pulling my leg?

Well, nobody except the FBI. And apparently they weren’t telling anybody.

 

[JTScribe]

Was it the same FBI team from the Nasser case?

 

[bwframe]

Was it the same FBI team from the Nasser case?

Or the Nikolas Cruz case?


.

 

[CHCRandy]

I heard it was a DNR agent he gave a statement to. And apparently, they didnt go to interview him......he seen the DNR guy somewhere and told him that he had been there.

Something I found interesting....his attorney makes it sound like Allen still has the same car, clothes, shoes, guns that he had then. If they can't find some kind of DNA in that black focus, I will really start changing my opinion. If he butchered these girls, and was muddy and bloody........there has to be something somewhere in that car.

I now also think that there is a knife somewhere. That was what they were looking for in that creek I bet. That knife could end up being the smoking gun if it is located.

I hate to be critical........but this sounds like a botched investigation. Too many chiefs, not enough indians.