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    Jaybird1980

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    That can't possibly be because many of your criticisms are also what the corporate media criticizes so even if you claim they are your opinions that you got from observing his own behavior you still are a dirty dog corporate media shill for expressing a similar opinion. Whew!
    Spot on.

    It couldn't possibly be that the corporate media decided to radically focus on those flaws and push them on people 24/7 to keep people from paying attention to anything else.

    Just in this thread we've had Trump voters called weak sensitive, disrespectful Never Trumpers who only believe what the corporate media tell them. :n00b:

    Geesh, it's a real mental workout in here.
     
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    jamil

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    My vote is my vote. No matter what happens I can't escape that fact and I will own it. If Trump screws it up it's on him though. :):
    :): Sure. I've voted for candidates that I later regretted. You just do your due diligence to decide who is right, and vote. Whatever happens, happens.
     
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    KG1

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    Didn't the porn "star" agree to be asterisked? I'm not sure where to find fault if all parties were in agreement.
    What about the third party? His pregnant wife? Don't think she agreed to it or had any say in it at the time. At least not to my knowledge. IDK. Maybe you know if she did.
     

    KG1

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    Spot on.

    It couldn't possibly be that the corporate media decided to radically focus on those flaws and push them on people 24/7 to keep people from paying attention to anything else.

    Just in this thread we've had Trump voters called weak sensitive, disrespectful Never Trumpers who only believe what the corporate media tell them. :n00b:

    Geesh, it's a real mental workout in here.
    If I only believed what the corporate media told me, I would be a rabid leftist and would not have voted for Trump. (Twice)
     

    BugI02

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    If Bug were to describe my thinking about a matter in a way I'd agree with, that would be evidence to me that he understands that mode of thinking. So far he hasn't.
    You have a very, some might say an extraordinarily high opinion of yourself and the thought processes you believe you use to come to your conclusions. As well you attribute low, indeed sometimes the lowest possible methods and motivations to people who reach different conclusions than you. The "I've never said ..." is just alibiing. 'I've never said' that people should venerate Trump. but you judge me to believe so because of your interpretation of my actions. Why would you assume you should not be judged in a similar manner

    The vector sum of your biases always points toward jamil being correct. Does that seem realistic?
     
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    What about the third party? His pregnant wife? Don't think she agreed to it or had any say in it at the time. At least not to my knowledge. IDK. Maybe you know if she did.
    I don't know her and can't speculate what arrangement she and her husband might have. But she's still married to Trump. It's reasonable to interpret that as her being 'ok'. Heck, if we're gonna speculate, maybe they have an open relationship. Maybe she enjoys the show. Maybe her financial allowance allows her to overlook it all. I've never heard her say it wasn't ok. I don't know. More specifically, I don't care. Just pointing out that things that might seem untoward to you and I might not be seen that way by those directly involved. Oh, and I've seen Stormy's work. 'Star' might be a bit generous.
     

    jamil

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    You have a very, some might say an extraordinarily high opinion of yourself and the thought processes you believe you use to come to your conclusions. As well you attribute low, indeed sometimes the lowest possible methods and motivations to people who reach different conclusions than you. The "I've never said ..." is just alibiing. 'I've never said' that people should venerate Trump. but you judge me to believe so because of your interpretation of my actions. Why would you assume you should not be judged in a similar manner

    The vector sum of your biases always points toward jamil being correct. Does that seem realistic?

    See? You don't even try. I think you think things are true that aren't true. You accuse me of this every time I say something critical about someone you hold in high regard. You attribute motives that are figments of your imagination. I think you just get tweaked off because you think I'm ******** on your idols. Is the reason you don't try because you don't want to think that someone can legitimately have a critical view of someone you admire? Why?

    Why do you care if I have a critical view of someone? It's like you guys go into attack mode whenever someone does that. You've done it with Trump. Whatsherface. I'm not sure if you were involved with the WLP worship. But that brought out the attacks too. Can't criticize someone on your own team? I'm sorry. I am not wired that way. And you can imaagine it's some kind of self opinion or whatever. It's just not any more complicated than I'm not wired to ignore legitimate criticisms just because the subject is viewed to be on my side. **** that. No one is beyond reproach. Not you. Me. Trump. Sharing a political ideology doesn't move one into that non-reproachable status.
     

    jamil

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    If I only believed what the corporate media told me, I would be a rabid leftist and would not have voted for Trump. (Twice)
    Oh. See. You just said you voted for Trump. You can't do that. It's virtue signaling. There's no redemption for criticizing he who is beyond reproach.
     

    BugI02

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    See? You don't even try. I think you think things are true that aren't true. You accuse me of this every time I say something critical about someone you hold in high regard. You attribute motives that are figments of your imagination.
    Dude, you are doing exactly the thing you like to complain about, which is projecting your interpretation of what motivates me onto my opinions and then acting as if that must be true. The only difference would be that you're the someone you hold in high regard, so it just makes it pitiable
     

    BugI02

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    See? You don't even try. I think you think things are true that aren't true. You accuse me of this every time I say something critical about someone you hold in high regard. You attribute motives that are figments of your imagination. I think you just get tweaked off because you think I'm ******** on your idols. Is the reason you don't try because you don't want to think that someone can legitimately have a critical view of someone you admire? Why?

    Why do you care if I have a critical view of someone? It's like you guys go into attack mode whenever someone does that. You've done it with Trump. Whatsherface. I'm not sure if you were involved with the WLP worship. But that brought out the attacks too. Can't criticize someone on your own team? I'm sorry. I am not wired that way. And you can imaagine it's some kind of self opinion or whatever. It's just not any more complicated than I'm not wired to ignore legitimate criticisms just because the subject is viewed to be on my side. **** that. No one is beyond reproach. Not you. Me. Trump. Sharing a political ideology doesn't move one into that non-reproachable status.
    "I've never said" you can't criticize/reproach Trump - just not in a vacuum
     

    jamil

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    Dude, you are doing exactly the thing you like to complain about, which is projecting your interpretation of what motivates me onto my opinions and then acting as if that must be true. The only difference would be that you're the someone you hold in high regard, so it just makes it pitiable

    This whole thing blew up into a conversation about whether it's tolerable to level any criticisms about Trump. You're welcome to express your true self on this if you want. You have criticized me and others for daring to criticize Trump, without addressing the actual criticisms. And for my part I retaliate. That's not helping anyone.

    I'm fine with pursuing a discussion about whether it's okay to criticize Trump or not. But, if that discussion proceeds, we can leave the projections of opinions onto the other out of it. That's not going anywhere good and I'd rather hold you in higher esteem than not. In the future, when I criticize something you admire, bring a good argument why the criticism is undue. "Because we shouldn't criticize people on our side," is not a good argument. "Because the media made you think that," is not a good argument. "Because jamil is full of himself," while possibly satisfying to you, is not a good argument for why those criticisms are undue. Other than that. I'm out before you get too hot under the collar.
     

    KG1

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    Oh. See. You just said you voted for Trump. You can't do that. It's virtue signaling. There's no redemption for criticizing he who is beyond reproach.
    My bad. Guess I'm not allowed to do both. If I criticize Trump on certain aspects, I'm not allowed vote for him. Or if I vote for him, I have to STFU.
     
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    jamil

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    "I've never said" you can't criticize/reproach Trump - just not in a vacuum
    Okay, I said I'm out, but I think it's fair to address this because it appears to be in good faith. So we'll see.

    I don't think I've criticized Trump in a vacuum. It's not like I've levied criticisms outside of any context. For example, someone might go on about all Trump's good points, and to add a fuller perspective, I might contrast those with some bad points. For example, if someone claims Trump is the best ally for 2A, while I think overall he's been an okay ally, I don't think reality supports the claim that he's the best ally. So I might bring up counterpoints. Like the bumpstock order. Or, the red flag laws he supported.

    And then there's the porn star ****ing. In this thread, we're talking about voting for Trump in 2024. It's certainly relevant to talk about character. I really don't think highly of people who cheat on their spouses. So in my opinion, him cheating on his wife while she was pregnant, is an indicator of low character. For all the loyalty he demands, he can't be loyal to his own wife?

    And I did not add that "I voted for Trump" to virtue signal. I said it because whenever someone criticizes Trump, the ardent Trump supporters jump out and start crying, "nevertrumper!" :runaway: That's silly. If I were a nevertrumper, I would not have voted for him. And that's another thing that makes me talk about it. Multiple things can be true. That was the point. I can vote for someone who I think has low character when that's the best choice available. How is that virtue signaling and not merely expressing my thinking on it? So the virtue-signal comment you made seemed to me that you were trying to marginalize me to counter my criticisms, instead of actually countering my criticisms.
     
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    KG1

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    This whole thing blew up into a conversation about whether it's tolerable to level any criticisms about Trump. You're welcome to express your true self on this if you want. You have criticized me and others for daring to criticize Trump, without addressing the actual criticisms. And for my part I retaliate. That's not helping anyone.

    I'm fine with pursuing a discussion about whether it's okay to criticize Trump or not. But, if that discussion proceeds, we can leave the projections of opinions onto the other out of it. That's not going anywhere good and I'd rather hold you in higher esteem than not. In the future, when I criticize something you admire, bring a good argument why the criticism is undue. "Because we shouldn't criticize people on our side," is not a good argument. "Because the media made you think that," is not a good argument. "Because jamil is full of himself," while possibly satisfying to you, is not a good argument for why those criticisms are undue. Other than that. I'm out before you get too hot under the collar.
    I happen to think "jamil is full of himself " is a good starting point.
     

    jamil

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    I happen to think "jamil is full of himself " is a good starting point.
    I'm ~275 down from ~300. So technically I guess I could say I'm about as full of myself as I care to be, but not quite as much as I used to be. I'd like to get down to maybe 225. I could live with that.
     

    KG1

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    I'm ~275 down from ~300. So technically I guess I could say I'm about as full of myself as I care to be, but not quite as much as I used to be. I'd like to get down to maybe 225. I could live with that.
    jamil lite. Cool. Will you be trimming down your wordy posts too? :):
     
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