The USA has the best healthcare system in the world & I am going to change that!

[bigus_D]

I do not know to much about this either. The first thing that came to mind though when you asked your question was this.

If there is government funded health care, available to anyone. Why would private companies be compelled to waste time and money to participate in a health care plan? The government will take care of this for them. So now your left with either purchasing your own health care, unassisted by the company you work for. Or you can use the government health care system.

The companies that do still offer a health care plan will be able to reduce their wages paid because so many people will want to work for a company that has a health care plan they will accept a lower wage.

Again I could be totally off base but it's the first thing that came to mind that made sense.

I hadn't thought about that... but if my company stopped paying my health insurance, then I probably would decide to lower my coverage. I am healthy, no kids, etc etc... all I want is disaster coverage (car crash, burned in fire, etc.) high deductible no frills. If I had all those savings for the last 10 years of employment I'd be better off today. I do realize that I'm not the typical case (I'm the one paying for all the sick people who get insurance through my provider's plans)... but I've never taken any government monies either.

I recently heard a story about how health insurance is more expensive in the US because of the tax incentives that exist. $100 of benefit to me only costs my employer $70... so they are more likely to provide this instead of cash... so I'm more likely to have insurance... so I'm more likely to get more tests done... most of the time these test provide no real benefit, but since my insurance pays for it, who cares? I don't mean to thread jack, but this is sort of part of the same problem.

 

[Beau]

bigus_D

I see what you are saying. A lot of tests are probably done that don't need to be. At the same time a lot of them provide valuable information and save lives. Now put the government in charge of who gets tests and what type.
"I"m sorry sir/ma'am. You can't have this type of test/treatment because your status does not warrant it. Or say one of us so called "right wing extremists" need medical attention. Well this label is probably in our government medical record. Think your life will be saved?

That is reaching I know. Tin foil hat stuff. Then again....

 

[bigus_D]

bigus_D

I see what you are saying. A lot of tests are probably done that don't need to be. At the same time a lot of them provide valuable information and save lives. Now put the government in charge of who gets tests and what type.
"I"m sorry sir/ma'am. You can't have this type of test/treatment because your status does not warrant it. Or say one of us so called "right wing extremists" need medical attention. Well this label is probably in our government medical record. Think your life will be saved?

That is reaching I know. Tin foil hat stuff. Then again....

Yea... I get that... but 'the plan' is to compete with free market insurance carriers. Then I can choose between the government's coverage and a company's. Unless there is something else, I don't think this angle holds water.

 

[Beau]

I guess that is what it comes down to. What is their plan? Do they want to compete with private companies? Or wipe them out to gain more control over the people? Guess we will find out.

 

[SavageEagle]

Guess we will find out.

I pray we don't have to.

 

[nawainwright]

Cause there aren't already HUNDREDS of insurance companies that "compete" for our business. The govt talks like there's some monopoly on insurance. Competition isn't the problem. The problem is people who ceased using insurance for emergency things and began using it for everything that happens. The way it should work is that you save money back to take care of the everyday stuff and when you have a wreck or something.....use insurance. My chiropractor costs all of $35 a visit, but people actually use insurance to pay for it!

We live on the edge of our financial existence and wonder why the world falls apart when we get hours cut. I lost my job in Nov. I have not used unemployment at all. I saved enough back and have lived within my means. My wife works and we followed the principle that when you make two incomes, live like you only have one - save the rest....and then when something happens things don't fall apart.

Not trying to be preachy....I just get so frustrated when the government tries to do things for us that we should know how to do for ourselves.

 

[smokingman]

Yea... I get that... but 'the plan' is to compete with free market insurance carriers. Then I can choose between the government's coverage and a company's. Unless there is something else, I don't think this angle holds water.

The problem is not that the program wants to compete with free market insurance carriers(granted that is the definition of socialism...government run enterprise).The problem is that this program by Obama's own words will cost an estimated 1 TRILLION dollars. Why if it is just competing with the free market plans...it should not cost anything.Oh,wait it is to GIVE those with no insurance coverage at the cost of the taxpayer.
Obama is stepping up his campaign for a health-care overhaul as he seeks to meet his self-imposed deadline of getting legislation through Congress and to his desk by October. Last week he held a campaign-style town-hall meeting in Green Bay, Wisconsin, and he used his weekly radio address to outline some of the savings and cost cuts that will cover part of the estimated $1 trillion cost of his proposals. Source-http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=aNPzLxEH9I5k

And then there is this...
Electronic Records
Obama has pointed to greater use of electronic records and regular assessments of procedures and treatments as ways to make delivery of health care more efficient and less costly.The government will decide what procedure is covered,this could be anything.And you can bet your life that if the government plan decides not to cover something your private insurance will not either.The government will totally control what medical care YOUR private insurance will cover,even if only by proxy.Why would a for profit cover something the governement insurance won't.They would have absolutly no fear of being sued for not covering something,they would just saywell the "what ever the name of the gov plan is" does not cover it so we do not have to either.


Paying for a health-care overhaul has become a key point of contention among lawmakers as they draft legislation. Obama has pledged that his plan won’t add to the federal deficit that is projected to swell to a record $1.8 trillion this year. The money would come from a combination of tax increases for wealthier Americans and savings in the federal Medicare and Medicaid insurance programs.
You can not tell me a 1 trillion dollar plan is not going to cost every American taxpayer money,and that it will not further devalue the dollar.
And how is cutting Medicare and Medicaid going to save a single penny when the cost is just being switched over to the new program?
Do I think health care costs are getting rediculous,yes.But is the cure,hell no.

 

[POTI]

60% pf the population already doesn't pay taxes, now they want us to pay for their health care as well? whats next they DESERVE free cars and homes too right.

 

[bigus_D]

...And you can bet your life that if the government plan decides not to cover something your private insurance will not either...

This is the part of the argument that I don't understand. If the private insurance carrier made this type of decision, then why wouldn't I drop their coverage for the government plan? It seems to me, that this decision making process on the insurer's side would lead them straight out of business.

 

[bigus_D]

60% pf the population already doesn't pay taxes, now they want us to pay for their health care as well? whats next they DESERVE free cars and homes too right.

Taxation in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article suggests that 60% of the population accounts for roughly 27% of the earnings and 17% of the tax base (including social security).

In contrast the top 5% accounts for 28% of the earnings and 38% of the tax base.

The tax burden on the highest incomes is clear... but to say 60% pays nothing appears to be completely false.

 

[bigg cheese]

UN-WHO?

Have you never seen Idiocracy? The UN UnNazi'd the world...

 

[bigg cheese]

I must admit, "what really grinds my gears" is how they pay for it.

People/insurers who are already receiving/providing healthcare have that coverage taxed. In essence, this says to those that are doing just fine that "your insurance is too good."

What kind of society strives for mediocrity? I don't care if I'm poor or not, I want the opportunity to make my life better for me and my wife, not be stuck with whatever the government offers.

And believe you me, this is what is on the table. It will start out as "competition," but with public plans being funded from private plans, what do you think will happen? Over time, the private sector will be run out of business. The government will make the waters unfit for more than one fish, and we'll be stuck with one steaming pile of mediocrity on a silver platter.

I must admit that I am torn when I try to characterize Obama. Sometimes, he's moving so fast that I'm just sure he'll get smacked down. Then, other times, it seems like he's playing the "fry the frog" game, and he turns up the heat so slowly, the masses never take notice...

 

[bigus_D]

I heard a story on my way into work this morning about 'the plan'... This story was all about how the Democrats or loosing the battle for change because they are on the defensive about it... the Repulicans are saying "socialism" and the Dems are just saying, "it won't be like that." Apparently, so far as I can tell, no real plan has been presented in writing, so there is really nothing tangible to analyze. The point of the story, as interpreted by me, was that something needs to be put out there and tangible before everybody gets all up in a ruffle.

Sounds to me like this issue is just a bunch of policital BS so far.

 

[kingnereli]

You all should just lighten up. $1 Trillion and letting the government decide what coverage I need doesn't sound so bad. It's not like there isn't plenty of money going around these days. The government is passing it out like candy. So what if I don't get a procedure or treatment I need because it's not cost effective.

 

[bigus_D]

So what if I don't get a procedure or treatment I need because it's not cost effective.

Thats simple... you die.

Can I have your guns?

 

[Crimson]

Lets just all have the same health coverage as The President himself, or the House and Senate.

 

[JNT0421]

Has anyone been to an Emergency Room lately? Most ER's are overwhelmed with patients, a good majority of them have no health insurance or are on welfare. They use the ER as their normal, everyday doctor office visit. Since they do not have to pay out of pocket, they can go anywhere they want. The ER CANNOT turn anyone away, regardless if they have health insurance or not. Waiting time in the ER's have skyrocketed, 3-4 hours are more are pretty normal waiting times now.

Now, imagine that everyone without health insurance is now given "free" coverage by the govt.... Waiting times will again climb. The hospitals aren't going to make more money if this "plan" happens, so they will be unable to hire more nurses and doctors to cover the increase in patients.

So, we'll then have overworked nurses and doctors... soon our smartest and brightest will turn away from a career in the medical field, opting to choose another less stressful and better paying field.

My wife is an ER nurse, along with the wife of a good friend of mine. We hear these stories on a daily basis.

 

[bigus_D]

Has anyone been to an Emergency Room lately? Most ER's are overwhelmed with patients, a good majority of them have no health insurance or are on welfare. They use the ER as their normal, everyday doctor office visit. Since they do not have to pay out of pocket, they can go anywhere they want. The ER CANNOT turn anyone away, regardless if they have health insurance or not. Waiting time in the ER's have skyrocketed, 3-4 hours are more are pretty normal waiting times now.

Now, imagine that everyone without health insurance is now given "free" coverage by the govt.... Waiting times will again climb. The hospitals aren't going to make more money if this "plan" happens, so they will be unable to hire more nurses and doctors to cover the increase in patients.

So, we'll then have overworked nurses and doctors... soon our smartest and brightest will turn away from a career in the medical field, opting to choose another less stressful and better paying field.

My wife is an ER nurse, along with the wife of a good friend of mine. We hear these stories on a daily basis.

I don't understand your logic. If the waiting times at the ER are high because the uninsured use this as their primary care, then wouldn't giving them some insurance get them out of the ER and to a proper primary care physician, thereby actually reducing wait times at the ER?

 

[JNT0421]

Nope! They use the ER like it's a doctors office. You have to make an appointment to see your doctor. The ER is open 24/7, so instead of waiting to get an appointment with their doctor, they go to the ER and it's for things normal people do not equate to an emergency.

Most people who have health insurance would go to their doctors office for things like the common cold. But, since there is no penalty or fee to go to the ER, they use it as their primary care. Because they do not want to wait a day or so to see their regular doctor.

 

[bigus_D]

Nope! They use the ER like it's a doctors office. You have to make an appointment to see your doctor. The ER is open 24/7, so instead of waiting to get an appointment with their doctor, they go to the ER and it's for things normal people do not equate to an emergency.

Most people who have health insurance would go to their doctors office for things like the common cold. But, since there is no penalty or fee to go to the ER, they use it as their primary care. Because they do not want to wait a day or so to see their regular doctor.

So, are you saying 'the plan' is flawed because "they" will use the ER more because 'the plan' doesn't have a penalty fee?

I thought you were saying "they" use the ER because they don't have insurance and the ER MUST see them.