Slaughter all of them

[Denny347]

Stop the 'war on drugs' and prohibitions. Let the self-destructive self-liquidate. No more drug culture, no more of our rights sacrificed in the name of fighting the drug culture.

Take away the safety nets, and drugs are largely a self-correcting problem.

This ^^^

Sigh

 

[Denny347]

To a person, every one I know that has quit is never the same person. They continue to struggle long after the abuse.

Indeed. In Portugal, they legalized heroin. Doctors prescribed a maintenance dose to the addict that allowed them to keep a life, job. No reason to steal and they are given HOPE. Then they SLOWLY reduced the amount over time, letting the body adjust. Eventually, they lost the urge. It's in the book I recommend. Talking to many addicts, they tell me they hate that they are an addict but our society pushes the idea of "willpower". If you cannot beat the addiction then you don't have enough willpower. The world is not that simple.

 

[Denny347]

Other than marijuana, I don't hear any calls for legal heroin or legal meth.

Portugal decriminalized all drugs 15 years ago, and they spend their "prosecute and jail" money on treatment instead. ODs are 2nd only to Romania, transmission of HIV/Hep C is down, and people don't use synthetic drugs like "spice" (why should they, when they can get the real thing).

The US could learn a lot from Portugal. There's absolutely no question the "War on Drugs" has been - and will continue to be - a total failure. Right now, the DEA is doing everything possible to justify its existence, such as keeping marijuana a Sched 1 drug, as well as classifying Kratom a Sched 1 as well.

I am. Meth would likely disappear or at least a fringe drug. Much like the bathtub booze that blinded so many people during prohibition.

 

[ruger1800]

These young people are making decisions we can not change.
Have you had to attempt to put an addict back on track. They will deceive/divert/steal/find alternative ways to get high regardless of the law, an available dealer, what ever.
We have been through this and it gets ugly.
Eliminating the dealers only opens up the search for alternative avenues such as poisons of all nature that are readily available.
The answer is in the culture. The drug culture. It is embedded in the users and those who would use. The dealers are merely opportunists.

This is more than just an opinion.

Yes, have tried to help addicts,absolute nightmare, would be much easier to decriminalize drugs and turn prisons into treatment centers. It's not just opiates that are addictive, have seen marijuana users go insane when they couldn't get their dope.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Sigh

I agree with them.

That's not to say there shouldn't be folks out there helping. But (I think) it was Franklin who said the best way to drive people out of their poverty (and by extension, their other self-destructive conditions) is to make them uncomfortable in said condition(s). Good people should reach out and offer a way out. We can argue whether it's the government's place to do that but it's certainly not the federal government's place.

 

[churchmouse]

Yes, have tried to help addicts,absolute nightmare, would be much easier to decriminalize drugs and turn prisons into treatment centers. It's not just opiates that are addictive, have seen marijuana users go insane when they couldn't get their dope.

Treatment is not the answer either.
It might help a few but having my brother and the spouses sister in and out of rehab repeatedly it became apparent it was just used to get them back in good grace with the family. Shortly (or immediately) after release they were on the prowl again.
This was the case with several people we knew that had issues. They choose not to make the effort.
There is no answer anybody wants to hear. Legalizing just increases the welfare roles as these people are not contributors but total takers.
Casual pot smokers/drinkers aside, the hard core addicts have zero to offer society/family. Only pain and hardship.

 

[churchmouse]

I agree with them.

That's not to say there shouldn't be folks out there helping. But (I think) it was Franklin who said the best way to drive people out of their poverty (and by extension, their other self-destructive conditions) is to make them uncomfortable in said condition(s). Good people should reach out and offer a way out. We can argue whether it's the government's place to do that but it's certainly not the federal government's place.

These kindnesses will be looked at as weaknesses and taken advantage of my friend.
Some might be "Saved" but......................well, nuff said. I am out.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

These kindnesses will be looked at as weaknesses and taken advantage of my friend.
Some might be "Saved" but......................well, nuff said. I am out.

Agreed. But when it's done privately, the people providing the help are free to withdraw or end it when ever they choose. When it's a government program, it never ends and, in my opinion, too often serves to trap people in their mire.

 

[churchmouse]

Agreed. But when it's done privately, the people providing the help are free to withdraw or end it when ever they choose. When it's a government program, it never ends and, in my opinion, too often serves to trap people in their mire.

As all of the "Big Brother" options do.

Reviving/hospitalizing OD's over and over again is not the answer either. The user knows he/she will be saved if the responders make it in time to they will continue to wander aimlessly.

 

[churchmouse]

Wait......I said I was "Out"......................

 

[Denny347]

I agree with them.

That's not to say there shouldn't be folks out there helping. But (I think) it was Franklin who said the best way to drive people out of their poverty (and by extension, their other self-destructive conditions) is to make them uncomfortable in said condition(s). Good people should reach out and offer a way out. We can argue whether it's the government's place to do that but it's certainly not the federal government's place.

Poverty and addiction are two totally different things. Making an addict "uncomfortable" will do nothing to help, it just makes it worse.

 

[Denny347]

Treatment is not the answer either.
It might help a few but having my brother and the spouses sister in and out of rehab repeatedly it became apparent it was just used to get them back in good grace with the family. Shortly (or immediately) after release they were on the prowl again.
This was the case with several people we knew that had issues. They choose not to make the effort.
There is no answer anybody wants to here. Legalizing just increases the welfare roles as these people are not contributors but total takers.
Casual pot smokers/drinkers aside, the hard core addicts have zero to offer society/family. Only pain and hardship.

Under our current version of "helping" addicts, there is little we can do that will work. That is the sad part.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

My Uncle (who is in my Avatar) died addicted to Meth. We were very close and grew up together (he was only 9 years older than me). I do not blame the dealers, we will NEVER rid ourselves of them as long as there are people looking for an illegal high. The responsibility rests on the addict, HOWEVER, our current state of drug enforcement does not make it easy. I deal with addicts nearly daily and in an effort to know how they think, I began to read up on it. I found a book that changed my mind FOREVER on how I look at addicts and the "war on drugs". "Chasing the Scream" I've touted it here before. Currently I'm reading it for a second time.

As long as we declare "war" on drugs, the problem will only get worse. Much like declaring "war" on anything. My uncle was only an addict for the last year or 2 of his life and died as my mom and aunt found him and was arranging treatment for him, he asked them to. I am an Athiest (so was he) but he was being treated in a Catholic Hospital and I owe the Priest a great debt of gratitude for what he did for my mom and aunt while the doctors tried to bring Dave back to life. He sat down with them, crying and in shock and began to ask them about Dave. What was he like, what did he do, etc. They talked and told him that Dave was a pioneer in African Elephant training in the US. He brought Africans to the Indianapolis Zoo when they were still in Washington Park and was the head elephant trainer for about 10 years. He left and left elephant safari's in middle Africa until he was injured and airlifted out. He lived an interesting life. The priest then walked into the ER where the doctors were working on him and began to tell Dave's story to the doctors/nurses. Why? To make sure they did not see him just as some junkie. That he was a REAL human that had a life and was more than his addiction. What could I ever do to repay the Priest back? Nothing. He did it because he knew. He knew that there are REAL people behind those addictions. They are someone's family, parent, child, friend. I used to be the same way, see them as addicts, wasting our time. Never more.

Kudos to that priest. I bet he believed (I've read quotes from other clergy about why they do such things) as long as he kept your uncle alive, there was a chance, there was time for him to find faith. I pray that he did.

 

[Denny347]

As all of the "Big Brother" options do.

Reviving/hospitalizing OD's over and over again is not the answer either. The user knows he/she will be saved if the responders make it in time to they will continue to wander aimlessly.

Soooo, should I not help when I show up to an OD? Does that make me a worse person than the addict?

 

[churchmouse]

Under our current version of "helping" addicts, there is little we can do that will work. That is the sad part.

If not caught before the altering is complete no. There is little to nothing that we can do.

Crap.......I was "Out"

To much personal experience here. Way to much.

 

[churchmouse]

Soooo, should I not help when I show up to an OD? Does that make me a worse person than the addict?

Not what I meant. Just saying they are aware of the boundary's. They also know they have a serious chance you will arrive in time.
That was my meaning. Of course we will help. It is in our nature. It should be.

Again, the addicts mind set.......you offer a kindness, many will abuse it as a weakness.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Poverty and addiction are two totally different things. Making an addict "uncomfortable" will do nothing to help, it just makes it worse.

I understand that. The promise of unending and perpetual safety nets certainly does nothing to desuade many from starting down the road in the first place.

 

[jsharmon7]

I dealt with the same 60+ year old guy on heroin twice this past week and have no doubt I'll see him again soon. The first time he went to the hospital and the second time it was jail. I doubt either will help him. If the solution was simple I doubt we would have this growing problem.

 

[churchmouse]

I dealt with the same 60+ year old guy on heroin twice this past week and have no doubt I'll see him again soon. The first time he went to the hospital and the second time it was jail. I doubt either will help him. If the solution was simple I doubt we would have this growing problem.

And this in my mind as a waste of you as a responding resource for an issue that might actually be critical.

Yes, life is critical.
Yes, when one chooses to waste said life it becomes an issue.

After seeing so much waste and drama due to abuse my tolerances are at Zero.....nada. I have seen what where and why. I have lost family and friends. They chose to do what they did. They refused/abused any and all help.

 

[KLB]

I understand that. The promise of unending and perpetual safety nets certainly does nothing to desuade many from starting down the road in the first place.

You think that people start using drugs thinking it will be OK because there is a safety net in place to help them if they become addicted?