Signing up for classes

[Coach]

I used to think that as well, but IME it has mad no difference over classes posted a couple months out. Not sure if it is because of the short attention span of the average American or what.

It is the same with assignments in school. Allow the semester and to do it and 95% do in the last three days. The other five percent did not do it at all. If I assign it and give three days that is unreasonable.

 

[Coach]

The point is: Why classes cancel.

Barring an emergency, classes should not cancel.

My view is simple: If I contact an instructor to teach a class, I find out what he charges. Then, how many students he feels comfortable training given the space available. If his price and numbers are within a range I can do, we look at tentative dates. If I lock in a date with him, I pay him. Then, whether 2 or 10 students show up is not on him---it is on me.

Unless the instructor wants to do it some other way, and assume some of the risk of low numbers, I don't think it is fair for me to mark through a week of his tight schedule and then say "sorry, we don't have the numbers".

I think it is a great idea to have what some here have mentioned---a way of listing how many slots are available and at what price.

A profit has to be made. Fair is not the bottom line. The costs have to be covered. How many such classes have you hosted? Give and example.

 

[jkdbjj]

A profit has to be made. Fair is not the bottom line. The costs have to be covered. How many such classes have you hosted? Give and example.

If profit is the point then the organizer just has to hustle harder. Being fair is a big part of the bottom line. Be unfair to the instructor or students and they won't come back.

I have never hosted a class where I hoped and waited for interest. Class was full when instructor booked. No cancellations.

Most recent, John McPhee and Matt McLearn.

 

[rhino]

Everyone I know has canceled an open enrollment class at least once when not enough students registered. Even Louis Awerbuck did it a few times over the years at Boone Co.

If enrollment is insufficient so that an instructor can't pay for range rental, targets, other supplies, and travel expenses, it makes no sense to not cancel. Most professional instructors I know are dedicated to helping students improve, but I don't know many who can afford to pay out of their own pockets for the privilege to teach, at least more than a few times.

 

[NIFT]

A couple of recent examples that may or may not be germane:

Spent two days this last May 2 and 3 training with Dave Spaulding at the Indiana SWAT Officers Association conference. It was great training, but Dave was a bit miffed that he donated his time to the SWAT conference and experienced what he perceived to be less-than-sterling treatment from the ISOA folks.

The following weekend, May 6 and 7, I was the driving force behind Robert Vogel's World Class Pistol Skills class at Warsaw Rifle and Pistol Club. It was a rousing success for the participants, the club, and Robert, with registrations filling well in advance. The only "issue" I encountered was with people cancelling at the last minute and expecting a refund. We made it very clear that the $200.00 deposit required was non-refundable...period, but folks still thought they should receive a full refund. The problem, of course, is we turned people away because the class filled and finding a replacement for a last-minute cancellation is nigh impossible.
Everything worked out well, however.

How much did I make? Almost nothing but I didn't expect to make money. In fact, I was fully prepared to go cash negative but actually came out about 20 bucks on the plus side for about 80 hours of work, and I was "comped" for the class.

For anyone interested, we have Vogel scheduled for May 5 and 6 of 2018 at Warsaw Rifle and Pistol to do his Practical Pistol Applications class. That class, typically, is reserved for LE and military, but Robert is willing to make some very minor adjustments to the class to accommodate non-LE/military folks. It is, essentially, the same class he has presented to SF and Delta (Army Compartmental Elements as, I think, Delta is now called) at Bragg.

If you are interested, you might want to sign up fairly early.

 

[Coach]

Everyone I know has canceled an open enrollment class at least once when not enough students registered. Even Louis Awerbuck did it a few times over the years at Boone Co.

If enrollment is insufficient so that an instructor can't pay for range rental, targets, other supplies, and travel expenses, it makes no sense to not cancel. Most professional instructors I know are dedicated to helping students improve, but I don't know many who can afford to pay out of their own pockets for the privilege to teach, at least more than a few times.

Just need to hustle more. Perhaps we can get jkdbjj to put on a class on how to hustle and be fair and run classes the right way. He seems to have great experience and knows how to get things done.

 

[rhino]

Just need to hustle more. Perhaps we can get jkdbjj to put on a class on how to hustle and be fair and run classes the right way. He seems to have great experience and knows how to get things done.

How could I have overlooked that?! I am remiss.

 

[Coach]

How could I have overlooked that?! I am remiss.

I am as well. I resolve to do better.

 

[Twangbanger]

When I competed in a different sport, I helped set up a few clinics with top-level instructors who charged between $300~500, in 1990s dollars. They were very similar to people like Ben Stoeger or Voegel, in that they tended to schedule classes in areas where they were already going to be, usually for major tournaments they were competing in. Their travel and lodging expenses were already covered, so teaching the class while they were there was just a "financial enhancement" for their trip. If you wanted a class in an area outside of where they were already going to be, their policy was the cost of the instruction, PLUS travel / loding / expenses. THAT had to be guaranteed up-front, by the organizer, to ensure profitability. (They would usually have a reasonably small minimum number of students, and would give a significant discount to the person who arranged the facility and promoted and got people signed up).

This seems to be a significantly different way of operating, from what we are discussing in this thread. Are there that many instructors who can fill events consistently, scheduling events in areas where their travel/lodging is not already covered by another commitment, and locking in dates and taking payments without knowing in advance how many students there will be, or if the class will even work out? Is that a workable business model? I really don't know. It seems problematic.

 

[rhino]

When I competed in a different sport, I helped set up a few clinics with top-level instructors who charged between $300~500, in 1990s dollars. They were very similar to people like Ben Stoeger or Voegel, in that they tended to schedule classes in areas where they were already going to be, usually for major tournaments they were competing in. Their travel and lodging expenses were already covered, so teaching the class while they were there was just a "financial enhancement" for their trip. If you wanted a class in an area outside of where they were already going to be, their policy was the cost of the instruction, PLUS travel / loding / expenses. THAT had to be guaranteed up-front, by the organizer, to ensure profitability. (They would usually have a reasonably small minimum number of students, and would give a significant discount to the person who arranged the facility and promoted and got people signed up).

This seems to be a significantly different way of operating, from what we are discussing in this thread. Are there that many instructors who can fill events consistently, scheduling events in areas where their travel/lodging is not already covered by another commitment, and locking in dates and taking payments without knowing in advance how many students there will be, or if the class will even work out? Is that a workable business model? I really don't know. It seems problematic.

Everyone I have hosted has had a minimum requirement either in dollar amount or number of students, or the class was cancelled.