Serious topic, what if they ban the AR-15

[nonobaddog]

You know how some closed and small minded people are. Any opinion other than theirs is extreme.

 

[BigRed]

Existing regulations are not endorsed by the extremists, and there lies the problem.
The 5 minute background checks for firearms transfers for example.

If you read this thread alone, you will see none of the extremists say a word about excluding dangerously mentally ill, convicted felons, etc.
They rant on about *There Rights* as inclusive for everyone.

I don't include myself in that lump of people, not a felon, not dangerously mentally ill, not addicted to drugs, etc.

Since I was "Young & Dumb" at one time I know the ignorant/stupid ideas young folks can come up with.
I'm not a fan of children/adolescents with firearms that are unsupervised.
And again, I was one of those that wasn't too bright back then, I shot up into the air, ect.
I had 24/7 access to firearms, but the idea of using one to harm someone never crossed my mind until I joined the Marines.

It's common sense, which way too many people these days don't have.
See anyone that *Thinks* firearms are going anywhere anytime soon, and the people that won't consider mentally ill, convicts, and handing out "Assault Weapons" to everyone with $100 is a good idea.
Just pipe dreams on both sides.

At the top of this it was a question about "Banning ARs", it's possible...
Particularly when the owners are the vast minority and refuse anything but open access to anything anyone can afford,
With no restrictions, no security, no responsibility with what happens to those firearms.

Since we DON'T live in a vacuum, and we are NOT the majority, it's a good idea to endorse common sense, while rejecting the lunatic fringe of firearms ownership.

Its up to US, the firearms owners to figure this out since the other side is being sold the idea that banning firearms will stop crime, and in particular mass shootings.

The best press around here was armed civilians protecting schools a while back.
The police admitted they couldn't cover all entries/exits of every school,
Civilians took up posts just off school properly and watched the schools (After a 'Credible Threat').

These guys were lauded by locals for what they did, raised awareness of 'Good Guy With Firearms', and generally created goodwill.

Idiots marching in the state/national capitol with firearms isn't good press, reinforces the idea of lunatic militias running around trying to overthrow the government, ect.
Makes them VERY uncomfortable, and scared people go too far...

Existing regulations are not endorsed by the extremists, and there lies the problem.
The 5 minute background checks for firearms transfers for example.

If you read this thread alone, you will see none of the extremists say a word about excluding dangerously mentally ill, convicted felons, etc.
They rant on about *There Rights* as inclusive for everyone.

I don't include myself in that lump of people, not a felon, not dangerously mentally ill, not addicted to drugs, etc.

Since I was "Young & Dumb" at one time I know the ignorant/stupid ideas young folks can come up with.
I'm not a fan of children/adolescents with firearms that are unsupervised.
And again, I was one of those that wasn't too bright back then, I shot up into the air, ect.
I had 24/7 access to firearms, but the idea of using one to harm someone never crossed my mind until I joined the Marines.

It's common sense, which way too many people these days don't have.
See anyone that *Thinks* firearms are going anywhere anytime soon, and the people that won't consider mentally ill, convicts, and handing out "Assault Weapons" to everyone with $100 is a good idea.
Just pipe dreams on both sides.

At the top of this it was a question about "Banning ARs", it's possible...
Particularly when the owners are the vast minority and refuse anything but open access to anything anyone can afford,
With no restrictions, no security, no responsibility with what happens to those firearms.

Since we DON'T live in a vacuum, and we are NOT the majority, it's a good idea to endorse common sense, while rejecting the lunatic fringe of firearms ownership.

Its up to US, the firearms owners to figure this out since the other side is being sold the idea that banning firearms will stop crime, and in particular mass shootings.

The best press around here was armed civilians protecting schools a while back.
The police admitted they couldn't cover all entries/exits of every school,
Civilians took up posts just off school properly and watched the schools (After a 'Credible Threat').

These guys were lauded by locals for what they did, raised awareness of 'Good Guy With Firearms', and generally created goodwill.

Idiots marching in the state/national capitol with firearms isn't good press, reinforces the idea of lunatic militias running around trying to overthrow the government, ect.
Makes them VERY uncomfortable, and scared people go too far...

Asking again.

What is an "extremist"?

Who defines "extremist"?

 

[Usmccookie]

Ok got tired of the same back in forth. Intellilect does not mean the repeating of oneself hoping the message finally gets across. I believe there's a diferent definition for that....

That being said, I'll put my stance and opinion simply and bluntly. Stupid does as stupid does. Same with evil. I am not God nor is any man or organization on earth. I dare not force another person into the slavery of my perceived safety. I am a man on this earth. I answer to God alone(and my wife). I can not stop anyone from doing as they wish. I do not control anyone's thoughts or actions. I am responsible for myself and my family. I will help those i can. But I will not incapacitate anyone from living as they may. So long as I am offered the same respect, as a free man.

Tldr; God gave us free will. Therefore not even God can control us.

 

[patience0830]

"Banned" once before, simply grandfathered in the old ones, some minor mods on the new ones.

Another scare tactic BS round of crap.

"O'Bammers cumin fer yer GUNS"!
For the last 12 years is getting REAL old...

Just as a side note...
There ARE other semi-auto rifles in the wild besides ARs and Chinese AK clones.

About as bothersome as a single cloud on a sunny day to me.

You are not thinking clearly. Obviously ate too many crayons.

 

[Usmccookie]

You are not thinking clearly. Obviously ate too many crayons.

What's wrong with crayons!

 

[nonobaddog]

What's wrong with crayons!

They are low in vitamin D3 and they come out funny...

 

[patience0830]

What are the chances of a filibuster preventing new AWB?

0% if they put it in a budget bill.

 

[Sigblaster]

Now this is exactly why the pro-firearms folks don't make any progress at all.
WAY too busy name calling, trying to be more 'Extreme' than the next guy, etc.
(You can thank the NRA coming off the rails for that...)

There are very good reasons we don't pass out firearms in grade schools, prisons, ect.
Try extending that common sense a little further... And you might be into something.

'Good' & 'Bad' are society concepts basked on what is beneficial or harmful to society as a whole...
Regardless if ONE or more persons believe something different.
There are idiots that argue against public utilities that deliver power, clean water, take away sewage...
But it's for the benefit of everyone in the society.

'Good' & 'Evil' is a religious context.
I'm sure the 'Christian' and 'Islamic' details are different, and would be defined differently by the 3,000 or so current religious sects.
I'm not interested in trying to define, quantify or qualify the differences of 3,000 religious sects.

Now, TRY to break down how to identify mass shooters, so the shootings can be prevented...
I'd start with violent criminals, with the violently mentally ill,
With people that promote things like mass shootings, the less influence they have the better...

I'd start with 100% universal background checks when firearms change hands.
That's what the entire call in background check system is for...
If you can't afford $15 for a dealer to do the check, then the buyer simply can't afford the firearm or afford to keep it safe.

A good example would be the Kenosha shooter, underaged and wouldn't have been able to pass the 3 minute phone call background check...

How about firearms lockers?
A bunch of the shootings are legally owned firearms being taken by other than the lawful owner.
A person has to have ACCESS to both firearm & ammunition to commit a mass shooting... Isn't that common sense?

Identifying the firearms status on the state issued ID is a good idea.
Since the far right is so worried about voter fraud, we have had to triple verify our Identity, get a 'Star' on our drivers licences/state ID card.
How about room for FP (firearms prohibited), FR (firearms restricted) or CC (concealed carry) right on state issued ID?

And again, the problem with 'Extremists' is the next guy isn't extreme enough for them, and therefore 'Weak' or an 'Enemy'.
I just call the people that don't agree with me 'Folks'.
Not being an extremist I don't have to name call or carry on like the world is on fire, I'm willing to listen, come up with workable ideas, etc.

I'm sitting here trying to catch up on this thread, and then I hit this post, and it reminds me that some peoples' heads are so full of snakes that they can't reason properly.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the the role of the Constitution, and the government, and what roles they play with respect to THE PEOPLE.

The Constitution grants certain powers to the government, and enumerates certain rights that are held by the people. It enumerates our rights, and is supposed to protect them, but it doesn't define them. WE DO. But that's not always effective.

The rights WE, THE PEOPLE, have are superior to the powers of the government, as long as we are willing to exercise them. When the government burdens on our RIGHTS become too onerous, it will be bloody, it will as be distasteful as it was a couple hundred years ago, but it will happen.

God help you, because I don't think you're going to be standing shoulder-to-shoulder with Second Amendmant advocates.

 

[Sigblaster]

How do you filter out the mass shooters,

You don't. You can't. Surrender yourself to this concept. There will always violent actors in our society, and you can't stop that with any law. You can prepare for it, you can defend against it, but you can't stop it. You simply can't.

Look at the failure of the war on drugs. Do you honestly think you could prevent guns from getting into the wrong hands with laws?

How stupid can you be to believe that?

 

[actaeon277]

Thousands of gun laws, each one was supposed to help.
Yet here we are.
I'm done "compromising".

 

[Sigblaster]

There ARE other semi-auto rifles in the wild besides ARs and Chinese AK clones.

Oh, please explain to me how these alternatives are more acceptable to you than ARs and AKs. I've carried the M14 and the M16 (and some other things). Is the M14 less deadly, because it doesn't have a pistol grip, despite the caliber difference?

What about the M16 or AR-15 versus the Ruger Mini 14? Same caliber, same magazine capacity. Is one more dangerous than the other because of the pistol grip? How about an SKS-M versus an AK?

What other rifles do you approve or disapprove of? The Ruger 10/22? Is it more or less dangerous with a pistol grip stock on it?

Tell us what guns you approve of. I'd really like to hear it. Honestly, I would. I'd like to hear your reasoning that DOESN'T rely on your feelings. Reply with Constitutional arguments. Reply with the arguments free men would make, if it's within your capabilty to understand what free men want.

 

[Kutnupe14]

It's not about the constitution anymore. It's about how we feel about the constitution. It's like the bible or any other article of guidance. It's not about what it says, it's about how you can make what it says, work for you.

Probably the smartest thing I’ve seen on INGO in years... and funny enough, more people hold the Constitution in reverence than the Bible.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Probably the smartest thing I’ve seen on INGO in years... and funny enough, more people hold the Constitution in reverence than the Bible.

You apparently consider it guidelines (think Barbosa speaking of the Pirates' Code) or wishful thinking rather than the binding contract between the government and the governed that it was designed to be.

 

[JeepHammer]

Oh, please explain to me how these alternatives are more acceptable to you than ARs and AKs. (Rant Clipped)

And once again,
Never been in an elected office, so refrain from ranting at me because you aren't grasping what's going on.

You will have to talk to the people that LEGALLY defined 'Assualt Weapon' in the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban.

 

[Bennettjh]

Oh, please explain to me how these alternatives are more acceptable to you than ARs and AKs. I've carried the M14 and the M16 (and some other things). Is the M14 less deadly, because it doesn't have a pistol grip, despite the caliber difference?

What about the M16 or AR-15 versus the Ruger Mini 14? Same caliber, same magazine capacity. Is one more dangerous than the other because of the pistol grip? How about an SKS-M versus an AK?

What other rifles do you approve or disapprove of? The Ruger 10/22? Is it more or less dangerous with a pistol grip stock on it? Tell us what guns you approve of. I'd really like to hear it. Honestly, I would. I'd like to hear your reasoning that DOESN'T rely on your feelings. Reply with Constitutional arguments. Reply with the arguments free men would make, if it's within your capabilty to understand what free men want.

ARs and AKs look scarier to the masses. Most of the rest look like "harmless hunting rifles", despite caliber differences, etc. JMHO of course.

I hate that gun owners(I assume) feel that the gov should ban anything gun related. Especially just of how they look to the public. Just because I don't own or have a need for a certain gun/accessory, doesn't mean I won't fight to defend someone else's right to own it.

 

[2ndamendlover1]

My wife and I have been debating lately about the current political reality, historical precedent regarding specific firearm limitations like the Brady Bill, and the potential of specific firearms like the AR-15 being limited during the upcoming democratic majority in DC.

I have been trying to understand what happened then and what could realistically happen now with regards to current owners of these firearms. Would current owners have to turn them in? Are they grandfathered in? Can anyone relate to what happened during Brady and how they handled it then?

I don't want to go down the conspiracy rabbit-hole here, so let's just assume another similar Brady Bill gets passed that limits guns like the AR-15, what do you think would happen with regards to current owners?

Honestly I couldn't see them banning the Armalite rifle.. Trump did a great thing by nominating constitutional judges to the federal government and securing a 6-3 Supreme Court in favor of constitutional judges !!

 

[Usmccookie]

Probably the smartest thing I’ve seen on INGO in years... and funny enough, more people hold the Constitution in reverence than the Bible.

Exactly, people don't read either and take them at face value anymore. "shall not infringe" is like "shall not kill"
Thou shall not kill unless its unborn or they commit a heinous crime.
Shall not infringe... unless its scary

 

[themadmedic]

ARs and AKs look scarier to the masses. Most of the rest look like "harmless hunting rifles", despite caliber differences, etc. JMHO of course.
[…]

This is key. Feelings not facts. An emotional reaction against a firearm that has been used in a very small percentage of crime (IIRC 2-3%), but looks scary and has been able to be turned into talking points to play well on the news. (gotta think of the children...)

It can be chipped away to create division within the gun owning community, as witnessed here. (Besides, we can still deer hunt with a lever action or a Model 70 the way it has been done forever).

Picture if you will, a scenario where they are successful and convince everyone to willingly turn these scary fully semi-auto weapons of war in without a fight, I mean it is just common sense gun control-right. Crime rates won‘t change. Then, it is just common sense gun control to go after all of those scary black pistols that are on the streets. (Plastic and can’t be seen by x-ray, spooky)

Once we can rid the world of the scary black rifles and pistols-then we can make it a safer place for the masses. Who needs that dangerous bolt action rifle that can shoot a mile and still blow through a bus full of nuns? Nobody needs to shoot that far to hunt rabbit and deer-they have to go!

And then, and then...

 

[BigRed]

Thousands of gun laws, each one was supposed to help.
Yet here we are.
I'm done "compromising".

AMEN

 

[actaeon277]

And they brought out the National Instant background Check, so that we didn't need to wait.

And they brought out a bill saying we need a "delay" to buy.

So, lotta good that did.