Saiga 12, How much work?

[M67]

So, a friend offered me a NIB Saiga 12 (unconverted) at a decent price (more than what they were 4-5 years ago but in today's market.....)

I'm not an AK guy but I like the idea of a mag fed shotgun, but seems like Saiga 12s are giant money pits (like ARs ). Getting them converted, new FCG, aftermarket parts to make them run smoother and to run light loads, etc.

So, I'm curious if they're really "worth it" in terms of money invested. They make one awesome looking SBS and if Indiana passes where we can own a SBS then hell yeah, if not, there are other options (Benelli M2 for example)

So, what work and parts have you guys done to yours to get them to run 100% with light target loads for plinking and other general upgrades/improvements? If you have a rough break down on costs of parts and work done that would be great too

Oh, gun porn always welcome

 

[vitamink]

Depending on how cheap you're willing to go I.e tapco furniture. You can do a conversion for about 150. Go to Carolina shooters supply and order this.

SAIGA 12 CONVERSION KIT PISTOL GRIP Phoenix AK Original style stock

its about as cheap as you can go. If you have a stock and popsicle grip from an old AK lying around you can save yourself more money. Enter "Css" at checkout for a discount.

Before you buy anything else, go test the gun out. Some run good, some need some encouragement. You'll want to be able to regulate the gas at some point so that would be my next purchase assuming everything ran well.

Good luck

 

[M67]

Tapco furniture came with my M10.....I hate it. So I'd actually spend some money on the stock. That being said, I hardly ever shoot the M10 so I could rob the stock and grip for a bit or I might now some people who have leftovers. If I were to buy one I'm looking at either one that would take an AR buttstock or if the new Magpul AK buttstocks fit

To be honest for the FCG I wouldn't mind trying one of the ALGs once they ship.

I saw a couple aftermarket regulators, didn't know which one was preferred over the other.

I saw the CSS conversion, really digging the Tromix trigger guard

How much work is it to move the FCG forward? I watched a youtube video and saw a couple old threads (pics were removed long ago) and it seemed easy if you knew what you were doing, but since I'm not an AK guy.... I have a machinist and a welder who can do damn near anything though


I'd like to test fire the thing, really does suck it's NIB. Hate to shoot it and not buy it

 

[Tactically Fat]

If I knew then what I do now...

I'd still have that "cosmetically converted" Saiga 12. *sigh*

I traded it away without even firing it.

 

[vitamink]

It'll take about an hour and 1/2 to do the first one... All subsequent ones take about 30 minutes. The magpul Ak stock and grip should fit. I'm a bigger fan of the Css billet trigger guard. It's very light and sturdy. The gun should run regardless and you can make any saiga with issues better. If you can, pull the regulator off, remove the puck, and take a bent paper clip and make sure you have 3 or 4 holes exposed. Sometimes barrels were put on clocked slighly off covering 1 or 2 of the holes. If it's a good deal I say jump on it before someone else does. If you buy a regulator, gunfixr was the first. Md arms makes an improved one, and tac47 makes the auto one. i recommend mdarms as it's easy to service and works great. If your gun isn't cycling the lighter stuff, Polish the bolt/carrier/and trigger. That should fix anything cycling related. There are also "booster" pucks that take up more space so the gas has less sq footage to fill.

For about 130 you'll be up and running. If you have issues, Polish.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

K's right on target here. I sold the two that I converted. Of all of the guns I've sold , I regret selling the Saiga's the most.

 

[spaniel]

If what you want is a basically converted gun that is reliable, that will not cost you a lot. $150-200, if you do all the work yourself. Texas AK trigger, CSS billet guard, your choice in grip and stock.

But you have to be willing to do the work yourself. It is not rocket science, there are plenty of online resources, and since AK tolerances are sloppy they are easier to work on.

I did all of the work on mine myself. Since I did, probably 800-1000 rounds through it without a single issue. The main thing is to make sure you profile your bolt and hammer. Avoid the urge to start drilling the ports unless you have already profiled and are still not cycling, or know you have covered ports to make up for (then you can drill or do D modification to uncover ports).

The total investment I have in mine is around $1K. That includes the $500+ purchase price, and I have a Chaos quad rail on it as well. In retrospect I wish I had looked for a lighter option that gave me a place to mount a front sight and a light.

 

[M67]

It'll take about an hour and 1/2 to do the first one... All subsequent ones take about 30 minutes. The magpul Ak stock and grip should fit. I'm a bigger fan of the Css billet trigger guard. It's very light and sturdy. The gun should run regardless and you can make any saiga with issues better. If you can, pull the regulator off, remove the puck, and take a bent paper clip and make sure you have 3 or 4 holes exposed. Sometimes barrels were put on clocked slighly off covering 1 or 2 of the holes. If it's a good deal I say jump on it before someone else does. If you buy a regulator, gunfixr was the first. Md arms makes an improved one, and tac47 makes the auto one. i recommend mdarms as it's easy to service and works great. If your gun isn't cycling the lighter stuff, Polish the bolt/carrier/and trigger. That should fix anything cycling related. There are also "booster" pucks that take up more space so the gas has less sq footage to fill.

For about 130 you'll be up and running. If you have issues, Polish.

I'll have a chance to check the shotgun out on Thursday and I'll check the ports.

My friend isn't in a huge rush on selling, so I have time to make my mind up after I dissect it, to be honest he probably wouldn't mind me test firing it which would be awesome.

After you mentioned it, I think I like the beefyness of the CSS billet trigger guard.

I don't mind project guns or working on them myself, I often prefer it. AKs though....err...I can still do the work I'll just have to go slow and hopefully find a ton of walk thrus (maybe some where the pictures are active). I want something that'll run and be fun, if the SBS thing passes I'd be okay with putting more money into it but I'd prefer to stay under $900 converted with some aftermarket goodies and that'll be a slow $900 at that (MPX, tax stamps, optics and mounts, etc.)


I did handle a Springfield SAR 3 today and kinds of developed a crush. I need to stop touching and seeing guns


What reprofiling of the hammer would be needed if it doesn't cycle well? Just a polish job or do you shorten it a touch to reduce the drag on the bolt?

 

[Yamadog35]

I don't have much offer not already said, but you said you wanted porn . . .

Mine was already converted when I bought it, but it was only maybe 70% in terms of what loads it would run. I can't leave anything alone so I had to "fix" it. Spaniel is right. If you have cycling issues, start with polishing and maybe profiling the bolt, carrier, and trigger group. Work on gas only if that doesn't do it. I started with the gas system which helped some but the work on the bolt, etc. did the most good. At that time I didn't have time to do the profile/polish work so I sent it out. I also wanted a left side charging handle so that got done by the same guy. Runs like butter now. Certainly not necessary but I have the Tac47 "auto-plug" in mine and I can load up a twelve round mag with a random mix of cheap bird shot, buck, and slugs and to a mag dump.

 

[zoglog]

I was thinking about doing the same thing to mine. It seems that there are problems with cycling when you shorten the barrel. Does anyone have any experience?

 

[indyk]

someone say s12 porn?

she was just a baby here..

[/URL][/IMG]

[/URL][/IMG]

All have been said and again Proper ports is a must!!!!

 

[vitamink]

Tromix and others shorten the gas system when they cut the barrel down.

 

[M67]

Mmmmm...gun porn

So my friend forgot to bring it with him today but I'll be checking it out tomorrow. I did visually tear down a 410 Saiga the other day and after doing that I'm much more confident in the conversion, seems pretty easy especially with the bolt on and not rivet on replacement pieces.

I was curious though, do these have the typical AK habit of the forearm heating up terribly?

Also, does anyone have any experience with this?:

AK to AR Stock Adapter

I have a bastard receiver extension that would be perfect with this and a spare MOE fixed carbine stock I have lying around

Called ALG today and asked if they have tested their AK triggers in Saigas and Veprs yet and the lady responded that they have not but would ask there to be some.

I'd throw on it it anyway

 

[romad7]

I was thinking about doing the same thing to mine. It seems that there are problems with cycling when you shorten the barrel. Does anyone have any experience?

It can cause issues, I also shortened the gas system 3.75" for my 8.5" SBS S12.

 

[engineerpower]

Such is the beauty of the VEPR-12: don't have to mess around with all the conversion foolishness. Comes straight from the factory with everything already done!

 

[zoglog]

Well, I'm overseas right now. But this seems like a great project for when I get home!

 

[vitamink]

Because of the conversion process you'll have 4 holes in your receiver. You can cut the tang, install an internal block, add a folding mechanism and go that way. If you prefer the AR tube and don't want to circumcise your rear reunion, I'd use the rifle dynamics adapter. I have one on my OG vepr.

 

[vitamink]

 

[vitamink]

 

[M67]

Because of the conversion process you'll have 4 holes in your receiver. You can cut the tang, install an internal block, add a folding mechanism and go that way. If you prefer the AR tube and don't want to circumcise your rear reunion, I'd use the rifle dynamics adapter. I have one on my OG vepr.

I was thinking about using button head screws and nuts to fill in the holes, or for $1, I might go this route

TRIGGER GROUP HOLE PLUGS FOR SAIGA CONVERSIONS


Oh, mags....factory mags the best or other brands work okay? I know Promag usually has junk mags but do they work for these?