Russia vs Ukraine anyone watching this ignite?

[Tombs]

Ukraine war: Russian POW begs for 'mercy' for invading forces

The prisoner, who said he is a lieutenant-colonel in the Russian national guard, begged the rest of Moscow's forces to call off the invasion and turn back 'before it is too late', adding 'we cannot win'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

So why exactly are we supporting Ukraine when they're openly committing a war crime?

Or is it just that war crimes are okay?

 

[BugI02]

That depends what our economy and the west's economy end up looking like relative to Russia's.

With China willing to build a new trade system, payment system, and supply basically everything they need... I think it's far too early to tell.

We cut our nose off to spite our face and without some excellent policy moves, we're going to be hurting extremely bad.

No, it has been a defeat for Russia already because their military has been shown to be nowhere near the formidable force it was thought to be. Their command and control has been awful, logistics in disarray and their AirPower ineffective in an attack on an army 1/3 the size of theirs in a country that shares a border with Russia making supply lines relatively short

What has been seen cannot be unseen

 

[DadSmith]

Ukraine war: Russian POW begs for 'mercy' for invading forces

The prisoner, who said he is a lieutenant-colonel in the Russian national guard, begged the rest of Moscow's forces to call off the invasion and turn back 'before it is too late', adding 'we cannot win'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

So why exactly are we supporting Ukraine when they're openly committing a war crime?

Or is it just that war crimes are okay?

War crimes do not apply to civilians. Articles of war do not apply to them. So if I was Ukraine I'd just turn the pows over to the civilians....

 

[actaeon277]

Also, Russia stated they will not treat civies as POWs, didn't they?

 

[Keith_Indy]

Pro-Moscow rebels parade 'fascist' Ukrainian PoWs through Donetsk

Around 80 detained Kiev troops were marched through Donetsk followed by road-cleaning trucks spraying water to 'wash the streets of traces of the captives', said a separatist source.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Donetsk POW March: When Is A Parade A War Crime?

The parading of Ukrainian prisoners of war through the streets by pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine disgusted many. But does it constitute a violation of international law?

www.rferl.org

 

[Tombs]

War crimes do not apply to civilians. Articles of war do not apply to them. So if I was Ukraine I'd just turn the pows over to the civilians....

So that's the media counter point to war crimes.

Good to know.

 

[DadSmith]

They are not bothered by no pesky Geneva convention garbage.

 

[DadSmith]

So that's the media counter point to war crimes.

Good to know.

Same will happen here if a country invades. I won't be taking prisoners unless they know something important.

 

[Tombs]

Same will happen here if a country invades. I won't be taking prisoners unless they know something important.

There's a big difference between not taking prisoners, and putting a TV camera in front of them to make propaganda with them.

One is an excusable reality of war, the other is a brazen war crime.

 

[DadSmith]

There's a big difference between not taking prisoners, and putting a TV camera in front of them to make propaganda with them.

One is an excusable reality of war, the other is a brazen war crime.

Are you referring to Article 13?

 

[Tombs]

Are you referring to Article 13?

Treaties, States parties, and Commentaries - Geneva Convention (III) on Prisoners of War, 1949 - 14 - - Commentary of 1960

ihl-databases.icrc.org

 

[Keith_Indy]

From the article I posted:

The "public curiosity" provision is not among the "grave breaches" of the Geneva Conventions, which include crimes such as "willful killing" and "torture and inhumane treatment," he noted. "So while this is certainly something that would be of concern, I don't think this is the kind of thing that you could bring Russia, for example, to the International Criminal Court and have a whole case based on," Scharf says of the POW parade.

Neither Russia nor Ukraine -- nor the United States -- is a signatory to the International Criminal Court (ICC), though Kyiv has accepted the Netherlands-based court's jurisdiction for crimes committed on Ukrainian territory between November 21, 2013, and February 22, 2014. Ukraine would have to submit another declaration or an amendment to bring more recent events -- such as the Donetsk parade -- within the ICC's jurisdiction, Scharf notes.

 

[DadSmith]

Treaties, States parties, and Commentaries - Geneva Convention (III) on Prisoners of War, 1949 - 14 - - Commentary of 1960

ihl-databases.icrc.org

Treaties, States parties, and Commentaries - Geneva Convention (III) on Prisoners of War, 1949 - 13 - Humane treatment of prisoners

ihl-databases.icrc.org

 

[Tombs]

From the article I posted:

I doubt north korea is under these obligations either, but yet we still find it objectionable when they violate it.

 

[rooster]

was pondering on this today.

What if Putin and the Russians learned from the Soviet mistakes in Afghanistan and our mistakes in afganistan and the Middle East.

If you roll in with overwhelming firepower and barnstorm the capital one 48 hours you leave yourself open to and actually setting up for an insurgency. By slow rolling it they are making sure to take out the Ukrainian military age males and their command structure.

Sure they take more losses by not steamrolling Ukraine but they stop the situation from turning into a 10 year war.

Would love to hear the thoughts some of Ingo’s other oif/oef vets on this. What would iraq have looked like if we slow rolled and actually took out the military instead of sending it underground?

 

[Shadow01]

There's a big difference between not taking prisoners, and putting a TV camera in front of them to make propaganda with them.

One is an excusable reality of war, the other is a brazen war crime.

Civilians can’t commit war crimes. the only rule civilians need to follow is to stay alive.

 

[Tombs]

was pondering on this today.

What if Putin and the Russians learned from the Soviet mistakes in Afghanistan and our mistakes in afganistan and the Middle East.

If you roll in with overwhelming firepower and barnstorm the capital one 48 hours you leave yourself open to and actually setting up for an insurgency. By slow rolling it they are making sure to take out the Ukrainian military age males and their command structure.

Sure they take more losses by not steamrolling Ukraine but they stop the situation from turning into a 10 year war.

Would love to hear the thoughts some of Ingo’s other oif/oef vets on this. What would iraq have looked like if we slow rolled and actually took out the military instead of sending it underground?

That's almost exactly what the US colonel said on Fox news.

 

[rooster]

Civilians can’t commit war crimes. the only rule civilians need to follow is to stay alive.

That’s factually incorrect. Civilians, ie persons who are not in the regular military, can and have been convicted of war crimes.

War crimes are defined by the winning side and I’d bet anything that if somehow Russia wins this that Ukrainian paramilitary forces and leadership are convicted of war crimes in relation to their treatment of POW’s.

 

[rooster]

That's almost exactly what the US colonel said on Fox news.

Interesting, I don’t have cable so only get to watch Fox when I’m somewhere that’s playing it.

Quite frankly it sounds like he has been reading my INGO comments for the last 10 days lol

 

[DadSmith]

That’s factually incorrect. Civilians, ie persons who are not in the regular military, can and have been convicted of war crimes.

War crimes are defined by the winning side and I’d bet anything that if somehow Russia wins this that Ukrainian paramilitary forces and leadership are convicted of war crimes in relation to their treatment of POW’s.

All the more reason not to surrender.