Moot point but again on the street there may be no time for ANY kind of sight pic. Spending time to get a sight pic at 3 ft will get you kilt. Each of us are dealt with a unique hand/eye coordination, brain and neurological system and lots of practice helps to a point. In other words, developed skills are obtainable and very useful in the games but on the street the sum of what you do with what you got, when you need it, makes the difference in wether you come home or not.I disagree, the optics makes a difference with speed.
This x 1000%You can acquire a sight picture more quickly, particularly at a distance, but a red dot doesn't make up for poor trigger control or any other fundamentals.
Are you talking on rifles or handguns? 20 years ago I was using red dots also, but they were definitely not slide mounted. My handgun was mounted on a mount. Probably shouldn't really compare either of those to a slide mounted optic on though.I've used (quality) red dots in a professional capacity for 20 years. 0 failures.
I have had backup irons fail twice. The rear sight knob on a rear AR fell off, and the front sight on a Glock 19 sheared off.
Then it doesn't matter if optic or iron sight is on the gun.Moot point but again on the street there may be no time for ANY kind of sight pic. Spending time to get a sight pic at 3 ft will get you kilt.
I have seen some phenomenal RD shooters. Specifically at a Range Master IDC course I mentioned earlier here. Some where getting rounds off at the 25 yard line with a sight picture right at a second mark. Same with up close. Same with us 3 using irons with maybe a slightly slower time on the 25Moot point but again on the street there may be no time for ANY kind of sight pic. Spending time to get a sight pic at 3 ft will get you kilt. Each of us are dealt with a unique hand/eye coordination, brain and neurological system and lots of practice helps to a point. In other words, developed skills are obtainable and very useful in the games but on the street the sum of what you do with what you got, when you need it, makes the difference in wether you come home or not.
In the next 2 IDPA matches I am signed up for, CO makes up 65% and 75% of the field. And remember in IDPA there is only one optics division versus about 7 irons divisions. That is pretty dominating and it is only increasing.Just a observation so far this year. I know Carry Optics is the biggest division in USPSA but I still thought this was interesting. Optics include PCC, Open, Carry optics, and in a month or so Limited Optics.
So far I have shot SCGC and out of 39 shooters 25 were shooting Optics vs 14 shooting Iron sights(2 days). 2 iron sight shooters in the top 20. Also lots of new shooters at this match both days.
Owensboro had 34 shooting Optics and 10 shooting Irons(2 days).
Atlanta shot this weekend and while I didn't shoot this match the results showed 30 shooting optics and 12 shooting Iron sights.
A match this last weekend in Ohio showed 47 shooting optics and 20 shooting Iron sights with 1 Iron sight gun in the top 20.
Looks like optics is outnumbering Iron sights almost 3 to 1.
I know optics are way more popular than Iron sights in Steel Challenge and IDPA has a lot of optic shooters also.
Not complaining just making a observation for discussion purposes.
In the next 2 IDPA matches I am signed up for, CO makes up 65% and 75% of the field. And remember in IDPA there is only one optics division versus about 7 irons divisions. That is pretty dominating and it is only
Stage design has a lot to do with it. With the craze of max round count (18 and 32) longer targets and tighter shots (neither one practical or defensive) I find my dot guns very helpful. Down and dirty speed targets the dot only helps me rack the slide.I shoot carry optics in idpa, and I’ve shot idpa esp and ssp, the funny part is I usually finish with faster times with irons, but a lot more accurate with my dot, so I actually finish higher due to not dropping points
Moot point but again on the street there may be no time for ANY kind of sight pic. Spending time to get a sight pic at 3 ft will get you kilt. Each of us are dealt with a unique hand/eye coordination, brain and neurological system and lots of practice helps to a point. In other words, developed skills are obtainable and very useful in the games but on the street the sum of what you do with what you got, when you need it, makes the difference in wether you come home or not.
Maybe! However I have seen some pretty fast iron shooters and Some places have went to target focused shooting with irons at closer ranges.
Simply place or overlay the front sight like a RD.
Then it doesn't matter if optic or iron sight is on the gun.
Not sure how we got from the range to the streets but most the rules still apply.
Yes 3 feet is a point shoot to keep the gun safe from being grabbed. For me at least anything farther 10ft+ I do/will acquire a sight picture in my testing it isn't any slower to acquire a flash sight picture before breaking the shot. This is where the practice thing comes in.
When I shoot irons I switch between target focus and sight focus depending on the shot. Hardcover or no shoot or 15yard+ I sight focus and wide open targets up close I target focus.
Hard to describe but even with target focus I subconsciously still see the sights to make sure they are lined up (but not in sharp focus) but focus is on the target.
With many of the police departments going to optics and much of the armed force's going to optics there must be something good about them for the ones who put their lives on the line to use them.
Not really..If you look at his post here in shooting sports section, it's always about the streets. We should move to Self defense thread.
Believe it or not I am not anti RDS I just have seen they are not for everyone and they do have limits.Have the same fast iron shooter shoot optics.
They may be a bit of an exaggeration. I have a G19 from 2010 with an RMR and 80,000 rounds on it. Still working.This is the same type of discussion that took place in the 80's with optics on carbines vs iron sights..
It took about 10-15 years for the market to move to optics.
Handguns it has been somewhat slower for the technology to catch up on the optics side to push the firearms manufacturers to start making optics ready handguns (slide mounted). Just like dots on carbines are easy to train to use, that is what is being experience in handguns. Now that they RDS are somewhat more reliable and the firearms are coming optics ready along with the new gun owner grew up playing video games seeing this, it is only understandable why it is growing.
While I do shoot Carry Optics mostly, I still only have irons on my carry gun/home defense guns. If I were to add an optic to any of those it would be with co-witnessed irons. On a hard use handgun, 10-15k rounds a year, optics are annual replacement items.
I have a C-More RTS2 on a Carry Optics gun pushing 50k rounds no issue, and a SRO die in less than 500 rounds. I can give 1k examples of "mine has xxx no issues" and "this pos died within xxx rounds"They may be a bit of an exaggeration. I have a G19 from 2010 with an RMR and 80,000 rounds on it. Still working.
This brings up a great point. Many are not prepared for the attention one has to pay with a RDS on routine maintenance/upkeep or care. (Which why many that preach RDS but blast someone that wants to run a 1911 sort of the same in a way and we’ve seen some folks (or brand they choice) up to the task and some that are not.)I have a C-More RTS2 on a Carry Optics gun pushing 50k rounds no issue, and a SRO die in less than 500 rounds. I can give 1k examples of "mine has xxx no issues" and "this pos died within xxx rounds"
I wouldn't carry an RMR with 80k rounds on as my EDC, or spend match fees, travel fees, ammo etc to go to a match with that. To each their own.
I do know that just like most things, they break when they are being used, not when they are in the safe, in the holster on stuck in your underwear drawer.