Rise of the optics.

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  • Bosshoss

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    Just a observation so far this year. I know Carry Optics is the biggest division in USPSA but I still thought this was interesting. Optics include PCC, Open, Carry optics, and in a month or so Limited Optics.
    So far I have shot SCGC and out of 39 shooters 25 were shooting Optics vs 14 shooting Iron sights(2 days). 2 iron sight shooters in the top 20. Also lots of new shooters at this match both days.
    Owensboro had 34 shooting Optics and 10 shooting Irons(2 days).
    Atlanta shot this weekend and while I didn't shoot this match the results showed 30 shooting optics and 12 shooting Iron sights.
    A match this last weekend in Ohio showed 47 shooting optics and 20 shooting Iron sights with 1 Iron sight gun in the top 20.

    Looks like optics is outnumbering Iron sights almost 3 to 1.
    I know optics are way more popular than Iron sights in Steel Challenge and IDPA has a lot of optic shooters also.

    Not complaining just making a observation for discussion purposes.
     

    Trapper Jim

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    Good Observation.

    We watched this happen in NRA Action Pistol 30 years ago. Like PCC, Open Class, Modified Revolver, Erector set holsters and such, they are all just another way to bang bang and therefore can be fun for many users. I have fun with them all however, my standards for the street will not allow me to carry an optic pistol. Dots are getting better but I’ll probably be worm food before I trust my life to them yet on the street.

    I have nightmares about my dotted street gun during my much needed presentation being too dim, too bright, flashing or doing the rubber neck trying to find it, as I bleed out on the street being chewed up with a plastic Glock held sideways with a switch.

    Mercy.


    Yes I know that a good skill set can be earned with a dot and more power to those perfecting it. But even then , if they are truthful, just like an AD, the Dot Danger will happen. Let’s just hope it only happens in the bay where it cost you bragging rights for the match.


    Does make you wonder, what will it be after Dots?

    Digital Homing Devices that completely make the basic fundamentals of sight picture extinct.

    See you on the range

    Trapper
     

    Trapper Jim

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    Remember when we only carried revolvers, because semi-auto pistols could not be trusted to be reliable enough for carry? :)
    Yep. I won or placed very high with my Model 29 by default as most of the SA either wouldn’t work or the shooters didn’t know how to make them work. However, a typical combat stage was less than 12 rounds.
     

    04FXSTS

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    I shoot IDPA 95% of the time with a 45acp moonclipped revolver just because that is what I like to shoot. Not a fan of optics but I seem to be in the minority but I already am shooting revolver.
    IDPA has been changing with lots of rule changes most of which I think are good. What I miss are COF's that were common when I got into the sport in the early 2000's. There were lots of short and up close type COF's that I enjoyed, Now they are almost all 16 to 18 rounds and at longer distances. The longer distance shots are an encouragement for optics over iron sights. Jim.
     

    sv40sw45

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    Slide mounted optics have come a very long way in the last 5 years. It use to be when will the dot optic break now IF it will break. I have shoot Open for 30 years with frame mount Optics that very seldom BREAK. I shoot my Limited pistol almost as fast as the open, but enjoy the dot on the Open Pistol more.
    Carry Optics is the POOR Mans Open in minor. I think it is good for our Sport. Max
     

    longbeard

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    Technology has advanced to the point where a slide ride dot is durable and affordable. Manufacturers are now selling packages with the dot installed which I am sure is quite a profit margin. This in turn drives new gun owners and competitors to red dots. Interesting times.

    I would expect the next tech innovations will be in recoil management. Microchips and sensors to tune the spring response, etc...
     

    ECS686

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    To me the popularity is because like everything. It was pushed by the gun industry with competitive shooting and gun magazines (or online pages these days) is all that’s being written and advertised. (Much like the Double Stack rage in the late 1980’s)

    With RDS I know I was the minority in a Range Master Instructor Development Course. Out of 15 shooters only 3 of us didn’t have a Dot. But of the 3 one was a Gunsite Instructor I am a retired FLETC and current ILEA instructor and one was an NRA guy and lifetime shooter. And we all shot at 98% plus far from the bottom.

    I also see an uptick in the last few matches I attended. While RDS are popular it makes me laugh that folks are so concerned about folks that don’t do the dots.

    While we all want to peak our performance to me (and just how I look at it) at what cost of money time and tinkering are you willing to do for that .10 of a second increase?

    I’ve been to a professional RDS class (Dave Spaulding) and have shot quite a bit with them. But I’m not that into them. Which is often an area of criticism by some that bought the RDS are end all be all.

    Some of us like classic upgraded 1911’s DA/SA SIGs or Revolvers with no frills. And that’s OK!
     

    Destro

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    I've used (quality) red dots in a professional capacity for 20 years. 0 failures.

    I have had backup irons fail twice. The rear sight knob on a rear AR fell off, and the front sight on a Glock 19 sheared off.
     

    Bosshoss

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    I have nightmares about my dotted street gun during my much needed presentation being too dim, too bright, flashing or doing the rubber neck trying to find it, as I bleed out on the street being chewed up with a plastic Glock held sideways with a switch.
    This isn't red dot problem it is a lack of practice problem:stickpoke::laugh:
    Yes I know that a good skill set can be earned with a dot and more power to those perfecting it. But even then , if they are truthful, just like an AD, the Dot Danger will happen. Let’s just hope it only happens in the bay where it cost you bragging rights for the match.
    Red dots were known for failing 30 years ago when we started using them in competition and the manufactures started beefing them up so they would last on the handguns. Same thing with the slide mounted optics as they have improved them a lot in the last few years. I hear about how the optics fail all the time but I haven't seen any failures during a match in years(I know they happen but just saying I haven't seen any and I shoot almost every weekend somewhere). Although I see several guns choke and puke every match
    (even guns the owner say never fail). A failed optic won't take you out of the fight but a jam or gun failure sure will.
    Trainers run failure drills all the time so shooters get comfortable clearing malfunctions. Why not drills with the dot off?
    When I was shooting CO I was good at 10 yards with the dot off and probably 95% hits at 15 yards(in practice drills) unless it was a awkward shooting position.

    It takes some work to get comfortable with the red dot but I don't see many down sides. IMO

    A auto with a red dot points way different than the revolver with Iron sights does but when I messed with CO for a while a few hours drawing and dry fire in the shop took care of most of the problems. Every once in a while a hard lean around a wall or something awkward and I would have to look for the dot but that is just a need to practice that. I got bored with the auto and went back to the revolver and haven't looked back.
    Will shoot CO again or LO if I ever start looking for a change of pace.
     

    Tanfodude

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    I shot a CO gun with a mini popper at 50 yrds, for some reason, I was hitting it with less effort compared to irons. IMO, that maybe one of reasons for younger folks, it's basically almost a point and shoot. And for less mag change for USPSA.

    Same with an AR platform, I prefer the ACOG over the irons. it's just a lot easier with target acquisition.
     
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    Bosshoss

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    I shot a CO gun with a mini popper at 50 yrds, for some reason, I was hitting it with less effort compared to irons. IMO, that maybe one of reasons for younger folks, it's basically almost a point and shoot. And for less mag change for USPSA.

    Same with an AR platform, I prefer the ACOG over the irons. it's just a lot easier with target acquisition.
    Yes IMO a optic is faster and more accurate in almost every situation.
    On close hoser targets iron sights can be just as fast as optics but not faster. If someone says iron sights are faster than optics then they need to work on their presentation with optics.:cool:
     

    Trapper Jim

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    Speed is relevant to practice regardless of dot or irons. The presentation in the shooting sports usually starts with the competitor already in stance, stage plan, sight pics, powdered hands, practice releases, professional standard commands, timers, glasses, ears, GoPros, reshoots and dot adjustments etc.

    My definition of street presentations include everything the shooter does in outfitting, equipment choices and practice from many different positions up until the fired shot. After spending a day at the park with family and then a bar mitzvah, then a late nite visit to the strip club, is your shxt ready for a solid fast dependable presentation? Dots or not.

    Standby.

    Beep
     
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    Tanfodude

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    Speed is relevant to practice regardless of dot or irons. The presentation in the shooting sports usually starts with the competitor already in stance, stage plan, sight pics, powdered hands, practice releases, professional standard commands, timers, glasses, ears, GoPros, reshoots and dot adjustments etc.

    My definition of street presentations include everything the shooter does in outfitting, equipment choices and practice from many different positions up until the fired shot. After spending a day at the park with family and then a bar mitzvah, then a late nite visit to the strip club, is your shxt ready for a solid fast dependable presentation? Dots or not.

    Standby.

    Beep

    I disagree, the optics makes a difference with speed.
     
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