Rise of remote work

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Heck, I encourage people to WFH and stay out of the office!

I may be in the office every day, but the two days I like the least are the two days that everyone is in the office. I like the other days. The are quiet, I have the interoffice phone so I can dial 3 digit extensions, two large monitors, a stand up desk and since our cost estimating team is in office every day, I can walk over to their desk if I need something without having to wait for the to respond to an email.

Oh, and my commute is 10 minutes without traffic, 12 minutes with traffic so there is that.

My wife’s commute was about 5x that (on good days). You can see why she’s really upset this little troublemaker is trying to tip the apple cart.

My commute is 30 minutes but i do have the option (somewhat) to WFH. I save it for the snow and ice days now. Otherwise, I don’t mind going in.

 

[wtburnette]

My wife’s commute was about 5x that (on good days). You can see why she’s really upset this little troublemaker is trying to tip the apple cart.

My commute is 30 minutes but i do have the option (somewhat) to WFH. I save it for the snow and ice days now. Otherwise, I don’t mind going in.

Hopefully the manager will tell them that those who want to work in the office can and those who want to WFH can do that. Then the lady can go show up, by herself, in the office and no one else has to suffer for her selfish desires...

 

[eldirector]

I've posted some of this before, but well... new thread.

I've be WFH for about 6 years or so. The company only has 2 offices here in the USA, and they are nowhere near Indy. We were in the process of closing the satellite offices and sending folks remote right before COVID. The government shutdowns moved up our timeline a bit.

I have a 30-foot commute from the coffee machine to my home office. I haven't been to one of our corporate locations since a 3-day meeting last December.

I can offer all kinds of tips and tricks. At least, things that work for me or I see working (or not working) for others. It does take a certain mindset to work remote, and not everyone is cut out for it. Pros and cons for remote, and pros and cons for office work.

I will never go back to an office. Not for the kind of work that I do. I am SO much more effective working remote. Work/life balance is SO much better.

It is better for our business, too. I now recruit from all across the US (well, some states are off limits) and have staff in South America and Asia. We have employees on every continent but Antarctica. As a global company, I can have a team in-market without needing an office location. I can recruit from JUST outside of major markets, pay a competitive rate, but not pay the inflated rates of "downtown {insert city name}". I have team members from rural areas that I wouldn't normally have access to, if they had to commute into the city. I even have my "gypsy" whom I have to ask where they are that week, when their video conferencing background changes (they have a permanent mailing address, but work from wherever the mood takes them). We can find the best candidates, regardless of physical location.

 

[wtburnette]

I can offer all kinds of tips and tricks. At least, things that work for me or I see working (or not working) for others. It does take a certain mindset to work remote, and not everyone is cut out for it. Pros and cons for remote, and pros and cons for office work.

Very true. We are very lucky that our entire team, with the exception of one young lady, have done very well with the remote work. Our manager has taken the young lady in question under her wing and is getting her up to speed. It hasn't been easy for her, but she's getting much better. Managers have to be on the ball with remote workers. You have to have a solid idea of what each team member should be doing and making sure you hold them to that. Of course, that also applies to office workers working in the office. IMO it comes back to having good managers.

I will never go back to an office. Not for the kind of work that I do. I am SO much more effective working remote. Work/life balance is SO much better.

Exactly how I feel.

 

[Ingomike]

. I can recruit from JUST outside of major markets, pay a competitive rate, but not pay the inflated rates of "downtown {insert city name}".

I was told on INGO this would not happen. First step…

 

[wtburnette]

I was told on INGO this would not happen. First step…

 

[wtburnette]

Pretty sure what INGO said was that it's inevitable that some jobs will go overseas, but not all. Not only office work, but plenty of other jobs not affected by remote work. I'm not going to panic because you think my job is bound for India.

 

[Ingomike]

Pretty sure what INGO said was that it's inevitable that some jobs will go overseas, but not all. Not only office work, but plenty of other jobs not affected by remote work. I'm not going to panic because you think my job is bound for India.

The reaction of some is interesting as it seems they must have a fear they do not want to acknowledge.

Another of your posts above just shows this is not settled as a new manager can change it with a memo.

I do believe that WFH can work for some…

 

[wtburnette]

Everyone is one management change away from seeking a new job. Nothing new here.

The difference is that Pre-COVID, permanent WFH jobs were quite rare. I would see one every couple of months. Now the majority of jobs in InfoSec are WFH. It's rare to find one that isn't. Should my manager change, or things get even more woke then they are now where I work, I could find another WFH job and increase my salary fairly easily.

 

[bwframe]

Pretty sure what INGO said was that it's inevitable that some jobs will go overseas, but not all. Not only office work, but plenty of other jobs not affected by remote work. I'm not going to panic because you think my job is bound for India.

I think that all remote workers should have a realistic plan B on how they will merchandise themselves as contractors, rather than employees.

In some cases the difference is a minor technicality, but for others there is a noticable difference.

Health insurance, retirement packages, and other benefits make a huge financial differerence to a company that is wrestling with a remote workforce. The company's management of employee benefits and all of the HR is a massive financial drain that simply doesn't exist with contracting the work out.

All contracting work may not be lowest bidder/overseas oriented. Plenty of specialized work requires skills that only the experienced can do.

I wonder if there is an organization or one forming to advise the new trend of remote working and related contracting? Group health insurance, retirement investing, etc?

Something that could be a solid discussion in such an organization is the remote worker's approach to their work and the manner of online "sharing" of what a workday consists of.

A more favorable to the company approach to "sharing" on social media would be a really smart move to help sell the virtues of remote work to the end consumer.

Remote workers bragging of getting the workday done in two hours and never getting out of their jammies can and do make the end purchaser wonder if they are getting what they paid for.

Be it a widget or a service or tax dollars, the consumer would like to think they are paying for somewhat similar output that they give to bring home a paycheck.

 

[Route 45]

I think that all remote workers should have a realistic plan B on how they will merchandise themselves as contractors, rather than employees.

In some cases the difference is a minor technicality, but for others there is a noticable difference.

Health insurance, retirement packages, and other benefits make a huge financial differerence to a company that is wrestling with a remote workforce. The company's management of employee benefits and all of the HR is a massive financial drain that simply doesn't exist with contracting the work out.

All contracting work may not be lowest bidder/overseas oriented. Plenty of specialized work requires skills that only the experienced can do.

I wonder if there is an organization or one forming to advise the new trend of remote working and related contracting? Group health insurance, retirement investing, etc?

Something that could be a solid discussion in such an organization is the remote worker's approach to their work and the manner of online "sharing" of what a workday consists of.

A more favorable to the company approach to "sharing" on social media would be a really smart move to help sell the virtues of remote work to the end consumer.

Remote workers bragging of getting the workday done in two hours and never getting out of their jammies can and do make the end purchaser wonder if they are getting what they paid for.

Be it a widget or a service or tax dollars, the consumer would like to think they are paying for somewhat similar output that they give to bring home a paycheck.

I'm not sure I follow. What does a company's remote work policy have to do with consumer sentiment towards buying that company's goods or services?

 

[wtburnette]

Sure, things change and mature over time. Most office work, that isn't tied to crazy productivity goals, has built in downtime. Almost no thinking positions are balls to the walls 100% work. You have to build in time for thinking, internalizing concepts, contacting coworkers to discuss topics, time to follow up on email and other odds and ends, etc.

Sometimes there is also cyclic issues, where part of the time you're a bit bored and have more free time on your hands, but part of the time your very busy and barely have any downtime. That's the situation I'm in. Most of what I do is tied to purchases. Right now, due to the economy and other factors, we're a bit slow. We have other things to do when we slow down, but not a ton. At any time, demand for certain things could increase and we could be slammed with work. Our manager and execs understand this, which puts me in an enviable position and I realize how lucky that makes me.

The people putting it out and social media that they do their jobs in 2 hours, or 4 hours, instead of 40, are idiots. If their employers ever get wind of it, they'll either bring them back into the office, or they'll drastically increase their workload. That said, I feel at some point positions like mine will either go to contracting, or something like that. Actually, I would be happy to work multiple jobs, possibly increasing my pay, in order to do work piecemeal like that.

IMO work should be done according to what you produce instead of how much time it takes you to do it. If it's determined that during a 40 hour work week, an employee should be able to complete xx amount of work and get paid $50k/yr to do it, if that employee gets that xx amount of work done in 30 hours, is that a problem? Should employers be upset that the employee can do it in 10 hours less than his coworkers? Should they give him more work to fill those 10 hours when the other employees, making the same amount, or doing less? Not everyone is created equally. Even with the same training and being in the same position, some people are going to be able to do the work in less time. I don't know why they should be penalized for doing so.

 

[eldirector]

I'll add more context to my "market" statement up-thread.

Yes, we recruit from Central and South America. We need native Spanish and ESL employees for some of our work. The rates here in the US for GOOD bi-lingual is pretty high. The rates there re FANTASTIC, and they are amazing people. I have a couple of folks on my staff, and they are top-notch.

Yes, we recruit from India. Their development and contact center workforce is AMAZING. I could not afford to hire the same quality here in the States. Sure, there are also issue, especially with some of our more... bigoted... customers. Luckily, we also have a STRONG United States based staff for both development and contact center work.

We also recruit from something 28 US States and Territories. Funny thing, it is actually easier/better/cheaper to recruit off-shore than in some US States (looking at you, California), thanks to INSANE requirements. On the flip side, the midwest is OPEN FOR BUSINESS when it comes to remote work. Lots of major and minor metro areas have high-speed internet and all the modern conveniences. Lot of folks enjoy the lower cost of living, laid-back lifestyle, and "if you gonna have a traffic jam, it better be a tractor, man".

We have plenty of contracts that require US-based work, so I'm not worried about moving everything overseas. Also have plenty of work that requires work to be in-region (Asia or SA). MORE than enough to go around. Heck, I can barely get enough good workers.

 

[KLB]

I was told on INGO this would not happen. First step…

Not sure where you read that. I for one said my company has already hired people away from Chicago, although pay rate was not the primary factor behind the decision.

 

[KLB]

Everyone is one management change away from seeking a new job. Nothing new here.

So true. Generally it won't be because they get rid of you though. It is usually the inability to work for/with the new manager.

 

[wtburnette]

So true. Generally it won't be because they get rid of you though. It is usually the inability to work for/with the new manager.

Correct. This applies to pretty much everyone working (with some exceptions, as usual). When I first hired into my position, I had a hard time working with my manager. He was a micromanager who was overly impressed with his own thoughts, but very dismissive of everyone else. I managed to get him to change the way he did things in several key areas that allowed me to put up with him for 15 months until he left for another position (I'm pretty sure ahead of being fired for not performing his duties). We had an interim period of about 6 months kind of reporting to our Director, but more or less just doing our own thing. Then my current manager was hired and the job has been much, much better since. If she left the position, the odds are the manager replacing her wouldn't be anywhere near as good and I would almost undoubtedly have to find a position with another company.

Most jobs are like this. I had a job years ago when I worked in Minnesota that I enjoyed. My manager wasn't fantastic, but we developed a decent working relationship. When he left for another position, one of my peers was promoted into his spot and I hated working for him. He was one of the worst bosses I'd ever had in my career (prior to the previous manager at my current organization). I left within 6 months.

Anyone can have their manager change and then their situation becomes untenable. Sometimes it changes for the better, but if not, a perfectly awesome job can become a nightmare.

 

[gregkl]

Anyone can have their manager change and then their situation becomes untenable. Sometimes it changes for the better, but if not, a perfectly awesome job can become a nightmare.

I too have had some poor managers in my lifetime. I have been able to outlast them though. Just when I would think that I couldn't take it anymore and I needed to leave, something would happen and they would exit.

I did once change jobs partially due to a ****** relationship with a manager, but it had more to do with me knowing that the direction he was driving our business unit was not going to work so I decided to jump ship when a customer pursued me to come work for them.

I was right, the business unit was dissolved and swallowed up by other units within the year and that manager was out of a job there.

My current manager is the primary reason I stay with my company. If he left, there is a good chance I would leave, depending on who became my manager.

 

[bwframe]

I have never heard of a mouse jiggler. Mother of invention, I guess?

‘My manager caught me': Remote worker says they got reprimanded for using 'mouse jiggler' app, sparking debate

'This is why you need a manual mouse jiggler!'

www.dailydot.com

 

[Ingomike]

I have never heard of a mouse jiggler. Mother of invention, I guess?

‘My manager caught me': Remote worker says they got reprimanded for using 'mouse jiggler' app, sparking debate

'This is why you need a manual mouse jiggler!'

www.dailydot.com

Too funny!

 

[wtburnette]

I have never heard of a mouse jiggler. Mother of invention, I guess?

‘My manager caught me': Remote worker says they got reprimanded for using 'mouse jiggler' app, sparking debate

'This is why you need a manual mouse jiggler!'

www.dailydot.com

Just like the Simpsons episode where Homer used the little "drinking bird" thing, whatever that's called, to tap a key on the keyboard every so often.

To be fair, if all you worry about as an employer is someone's online presence instead of the work their doing, this is the kind of thing that happens.