Retirement and gun/ammo/range costs

[Nazgul]

My "qualified negotiator" cost me a Kimber 45 ACP Ultra Carry from an Ingo member....

She shot it and took it from me!!

Don

 

[churchmouse]

Been reading this for the last few days and said I wasn't going to get in it but I thought I would add my .

RELOADING
I hate reloading because years ago I was working 50+ hours a week and wife and I were shooting competition every weekend. With some practice thrown in I was reloading 40K a year to keep us both in ammo(not counting .22 we shot in competition). Not only were we shooting competition we were the Match Director at the local club and that entailed several hours work a week to keep things going at the club.
I still found time to reload as I couldn't afford to buy ammo at that volume. If you really want to shoot you will figure out some time to reload.
IMO if you truly don't have time to reload you don't have time to shoot.

I hear all the time "I don't have space"(CM ) again if you want to shoot much you can find a way. I knew a guy that lived in a tiny apartment that had 1 room and a bathroom. He had a hitch adapter made up that his press mounted to and carried his press out to the truck and set down behind the truck and reloaded. Heard of a guy that retired and had a small motorhome that traveled around the country shooting USPSA matches had a similar setup that he reload from the hitch on the back of the motorhome.

Someone mentioned that if the price of ammo went up the price of components would go up also. While that may be true to some extent it hasn't went up the same amount as loaded ammo. One of the big wins for reloading is after Sandy Hook loaded ammo disappeared from the shelf's of stores. I continued shooting as normal with the exception of .22's and I quit using them for practice and saved what I had for matches. Those that didn't reload quit shooting because they couldn't find enough ammo or were afraid to shoot what they had because they weren't sure they could get more.

Primers and powder were harder to come by during that period but if you looked around you could usually find it and when you did you stocked up.

OK how on to the cost involved. A reloading press is a investment if you buy the right equipment. Not only will it pay for itself, when you are done with it you or your family can sell it and recoup a large portion of your investment. IMO it is just another gun in my collection.

9MM ammo is cheap right now but I can load 100 rounds for $10-$11. So it would take a little longer than some calibers to "break even on the equipment".
I can load 45acp for around $15 a 100 and .40 S&W in between the two.
The big savings is the less popular calibers like .44 Mag/Special and 10MM, and 45LC, which I can load for between $15-$20 for 100 depending on what bullet I use and how hot I load them.
Any rifle caliber except .223/.556 and maybe 7.62x39 it is much cheaper to reload and even those two it is still cheaper to reload than shoot factory.
I didn't count the cost of brass because it is a reusable item and cheap in the popular calibers or free if you want to pick up range brass.
If you are shooting factory ammo and not picking up your brass then you are walking away and leaving money on the floor even if you don't reload.
If you are only shooting a couple of hundred rounds a year then yeah you don't need to reload.

Not picking on anyone but just a few observations. I have to admit that it seems hard to figure that someone works overtime or extra jobs to come home and order more ammo when they could stay home from work and load there own.
I must confess to doing the same thing though and the overtime I worked bought me some great cars, motorcycles, and guns that I couldn't have had otherwise. But going to work when I could stay home and do something I could do myself seems silly now that I'm older and retired.

I said at the start I hate reloading but I realize that I couldn't shoot as much or at all without reloading so it is a necessity
to enjoy the shooting sports at least for me.

It seems strange to see pictures posted of some great collections of guns(worth thousands of dollars) and the owners say they don't want to reload because of the initial investment .

Reloading is not for everyone and while I don't necessarily enjoy it, some really do enjoy reloading just like some people like mowing the grass . I don't care for either one but still do them.

I don't know the OP but I have followed his journey online with fascination and sometimes bewilderment .
It's great to see someone so excited about our hobby/sport.
I have to say that his claim of being fugal/tight/thrifty is funny when he is spending $5200 a year on ammo and not even considering reloading but instead will shoot less when you retire to save money. You do know that if you quit shooting all together you will save even more money. In fact if you sold all your guns and put the money in the bank you can sit around in your retirement and admire your bank balance.
I'm just picking on you to try to make a point. It's your retirement do what you enjoy and retirement is not a reason to stop doing what you enjoy. If money is tight you will find a way to make it work.

A couple observations doddg your shooting has improved a lot since the beginning and you are shooting good groups.
IMO now you should work on getting your speed up. It will be a whole new challenge and will be a new learning experience trying to keep your accuracy up while upping the cadence some.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[halfmileharry]

We could all pitch in and buy an ammo factory. Sell 'nuff to pay the bills and keep a shootin' stock of our calibers

 

[Leadeye]

We could all pitch in and buy an ammo factory. Sell 'nuff to pay the bills and keep a shootin' stock of our calibers

Which calibers?

 

[halfmileharry]

Which calibers?

IF we're the owners I guess it's up to us to decide. Eh?

 

[doddg]

Been reading this for the last few days and said I wasn't going to get in it but I thought I would add my .

1. I know what you mean, I didn't have the energy to respond last night (been sick), and I wasn't going to get in, but I'll give a few feedbacks.

RELOADING
I hate reloading because years ago I was working 50+ hours a week and wife and I were shooting competition every weekend. With some practice thrown in I was reloading 40K a year to keep us both in ammo(not counting .22 we shot in competition). Not only were we shooting competition we were the Match Director at the local club and that entailed several hours work a week to keep things going at the club.
I still found time to reload as I couldn't afford to buy ammo at that volume. If you really want to shoot you will figure out some time to reload.
IMO if you truly don't have time to reload you don't have time to shoot.

2. A tough position which would eliminate most shooters. I'll not measure up to that standard.
3. I can't imagine a work schedule and the weekends being so full for years like yours, it was very cool that your wife could share it with you.

I hear all the time "I don't have space"(CM ) again if you want to shoot much you can find a way. I knew a guy that lived in a tiny apartment that had 1 room and a bathroom. He had a hitch adapter made up that his press mounted to and carried his press out to the truck and set down behind the truck and reloaded. Heard of a guy that retired and had a small motorhome that traveled around the country shooting USPSA matches had a similar setup that he reload from the hitch on the back of the motorhome.

4. I don't have space, but it doesn't matter: I am not going to reload; I will shoot less.
5. One of the reasons I got rid of all but 2 calibers (.22LR & 9mm) and found a range that cost me 1/3 or the Point Blank monthly fees, was to make my hobby more financially feasible.

Someone mentioned that if the price of ammo went up the price of components would go up also. While that may be true to some extent it hasn't went up the same amount as loaded ammo. One of the big wins for reloading is after Sandy Hook loaded ammo disappeared from the shelf's of stores. I continued shooting as normal with the exception of .22's and I quit using them for practice and saved what I had for matches. Those that didn't reload quit shooting because they couldn't find enough ammo or were afraid to shoot what they had because they weren't sure they could get more.
Primers and powder were harder to come by during that period but if you looked around you could usually find it and when you did you stocked up.
OK how on to the cost involved. A reloading press is a investment if you buy the right equipment. Not only will it pay for itself, when you are done with it you or your family can sell it and recoup a large portion of your investment. IMO it is just another gun in my collection.
9MM ammo is cheap right now but I can load 100 rounds for $10-$11. So it would take a little longer than some calibers to "break even on the equipment".
I can load 45acp for around $15 a 100 and .40 S&W in between the two.
The big savings is the less popular calibers like .44 Mag/Special and 10MM, and 45LC, which I can load for between $15-$20 for 100 depending on what bullet I use and how hot I load them.
Any rifle caliber except .223/.556 and maybe 7.62x39 it is much cheaper to reload and even those two it is still cheaper to reload than shoot factory.
I didn't count the cost of brass because it is a reusable item and cheap in the popular calibers or free if you want to pick up range brass.
If you are shooting factory ammo and not picking up your brass then you are walking away and leaving money on the floor even if you don't reload.
If you are only shooting a couple of hundred rounds a year then yeah you don't need to reload.
Not picking on anyone but just a few observations. I have to admit that it seems hard to figure that someone works overtime or extra jobs to come home and order more ammo when they could stay home from work and load there own.
I must confess to doing the same thing though and the overtime I worked bought me some great cars, motorcycles, and guns that I couldn't have had otherwise. But going to work when I could stay home and do something I could do myself seems silly now that I'm older and retired.
I said at the start I hate reloading but I realize that I couldn't shoot as much or at all without reloading so it is a necessity
to enjoy the shooting sports at least for me.
It seems strange to see pictures posted of some great collections of guns(worth thousands of dollars) and the owners say they don't want to reload because of the initial investment .

Reloading is not for everyone and while I don't necessarily enjoy it, some really do enjoy reloading just like some people like mowing the grass . I don't care for either one but still do them.

I don't know the OP but I have followed his journey online with fascination and sometimes bewilderment .
It's great to see someone so excited about our hobby/sport.

6. Activity was a flurry, that will settle down now that I have made decisions about "which" guns, and have spent more to get them (in the 9mm).
7. If I retire at the end of this school year, it is sooner that I thought, so I might have to end up selling some of the "range guns" for financial fitness. It will be interesting to see what is going on a year from now.


I have to say that his claim of being fugal/tight/thrifty is funny when he is spending $5200 a year on ammo and not even considering reloading but instead will shoot less when you retire to save money.

8. I'm sure you have done the math but I assure you I have not spent anywhere near $5200, but I have spent more this past year than I ever will in any other year (more accurately: 1.5 yrs.). I offer the analogy that married couples have sex the first 7 yrs. more than the rest of their lives. Sorry, I teach Sociology also, and these stats come around. I don't believe I will pursue things like I have: that decision being practical on all levels for me.
9. I can feel my zest ebbing lately. This all started out May of 2017 wanting to update my 2 CC guns (Colt Mustang .380 & an NAA 22 magnum), that I had tucked away which led to a .22 target gun, and the rest is history, 20ish guns later.
10. Yes, I got carried away. I did find it odd that I got criticized for my 110 mph approach, though, since I was having more fun than I'd had in years: literally. But, I am calm now.
You do know that if you quit shooting all together you will save even more money. In fact if you sold all your guns and put the money in the bank you can sit around in your retirement and admire your bank balance.

11. Valid point, and I know that reality. Life and decisions are a balancing act, and everyone is going to do differently, and I have priorities.
12. Moderating the monthly ongoing expense of guns/ammo/range fees/training/holsters/etc. is the budget part that must be done. No "$5200" being spent on ammo, for example.

I'm just picking on you to try to make a point. It's your retirement do what you enjoy and retirement is not a reason to stop doing what you enjoy. If money is tight you will find a way to make it work.

13. Money has been tight before. We just tighten up. I don't have alot of "fluff" to cut, but this "hobby" has been the pleasant diversion and exception of my norm in spending money on "wants" not "needs." I do believe a CC gun is a need, but not a "bunch" of others for fun and variety.

A couple observations doddg your shooting has improved a lot since the beginning and you are shooting good groups.
IMO now you should work on getting your speed up. It will be a whole new challenge and will be a new learning experience trying to keep your accuracy up while upping the cadence some.

14. I did buy 100 Dot Torture targets the other day for some initiation of that, and hope to do some steel shooting, but that will probably not happen with work being stressful and time-consuming.

Good luck with your decision.

15. Thanks for your time. I know I am an acquired taste and don't see things like "normal" people. Especially difficult online, which is why I love it so much when I get together with others for this or that. I have found the people here that I have met to be stellar and many I just read their writings, but I have much respect for them.

 

[mcapo]

Here is my solution, doddg.

Set a hard retirement date. Then work six months past that date using every penny to stock up on ammo and future range fees (after work related costs like gas, etc.)

At the end of Retirement plus 180 days, you will have enough ammo to shoot until you are 100.

 

[Guardian65]

Have you considered dry fire?

My wife and I were talking about retirement Friday and she mentioned that I would have to give up my "hobby" if I retire now instead of keep working for another year or two.
#####
For the cost of one range trip and ammo shot you can purchase a dry fire trainer. With G-Sight laser "bullet" about $40 and their app (free), you can train to your heart's delight! AND... You can train drills not allowed at most ranges.

 

[Guardian65]

Dry fire with G-Sight laser "bullet" and their free app. Cost about $40 for bullet and app is free. AND you can train drills normally not allowed at most ranges.

 

[doddg]

Here is my solution, doddg.
Set a hard retirement date. Then work six months past that date using every penny to stock up on ammo and future range fees (after work related costs like gas, etc.)
At the end of Retirement plus 180 days, you will have enough ammo to shoot until you are 100.

1. Date set. (if I don't back out: 15% chance, b/c in my mind I'm done).
2. I'd have to go 10 months (known as a year in "teacher-talk" ), but since I would still have all my expenses of living, I wouldn't be able to save much per month since we teachers get paid just enough to pay the bills so we don't end up in jail, but due to my superior money management skills (never borrow money), I have survived and thrived. You've met me and seen my car: tires alone cost as much as a CZ Shadow 2.
2. Don't think I haven't thought that my car might have to go in retirement, b/c that would buy a modest kitchen remodel.

My wife and I were talking about retirement Friday and she mentioned that I would have to give up my "hobby" if I retire now instead of keep working for another year or two.
#####
For the cost of one range trip and ammo shot you can purchase a dry fire trainer. With G-Sight laser "bullet" about $40 and their app (free), you can train to your heart's delight! AND... You can train drills not allowed at most ranges.

3. I need to know more about this. I'll google it. (too much infooptions out there for me to tackle tonight: is the $150 that much better than the $40?)
4. You don't know the number of times someone mentions something that I should do: I simply go do it. Unless its reloading ammo.
5. Half the guns I own is b/c of recommendations here.

 

[2in1evtime]

Had a friend retire a few years ago, kind of the same scenario, wife said you may have to give up hunting and shooting because of budget, well he sold off some guns, quit hunting,ect. ended up going back to work a year later because his wife said those things because she didn't want him home 24/7!! Was telling him about this post so i let him read thru it, he looked at me smiled and said this sounded really familiar!!

 

[churchmouse]

Had a friend retire a few years ago, kind of the same scenario, wife said you may have to give up hunting and shooting because of budget, well he sold off some guns, quit hunting,ect. ended up going back to work a year later because his wife said those things because she didn't want him home 24/7!! Was telling him about this post so i let him read thru it, he looked at me smiled and said this sounded really familiar!!

I would be finding a new spouse or doing without one.

 

[2in1evtime]

I would be finding a new spouse or doing without one.

 

[mcapo]

go 10 months...since I would still have all my expenses of living, I wouldn't be able to save much per month...\

So are you saying your net income after living expenses post retirement equals your net income after living expenses working. Dang, I should have been a teacher!

 

[doddg]

So are you saying your net income after living expenses post retirement equals your net income after living expenses working. Dang, I should have been a teacher!

1. There are some "X" factors that reduce the living expenses which realize more of the net income will be available for expenses:
a. Money spent for IRAs, Roth and traditional, will not be spent for that purpose b/c those funds have to come from income, therefore, raising net.
b. Taxes to be lower a little (not taxed on all of SS), as well as the gross income, but there is an effect.
c. Traditionally, retirement specialists say you can live on 20% less when retired b/c of a number of reasons.
We live more basic than most, so the effect will be less, but there will still be a savings there (making the net more valuable in real dollars available).
d. There are more mitigating factors, but that is an introduction.

2. My "raw" net income: Pension, SS, wife's SS will meet our present expenses. (It's 7-10 yrs. (or sooner) down the road when inflation has come back that will be the killer!)
3. If you also count my Teacher Annuity (different/separate from pension), taking it as a monthly income instead of rolling it over into a retirement account to have access to the money, along with 4 other small investments with the income: it will be the samish. I have figured this very close for years and kept a record of all expenses for decades.
4. But, I'm not going to take my Teacher Annuity as a monthly check b/c if you die (and spouse) the State keeps the balance of it (if you live 30 more years, you beat the system), and you don't have access to your money b/c of the "Annuity" nature of it, but I'll transfer it into another vehicle for retirement so it is available for extraordinary expenses: big ticket items over budget, so money doesn't have to be borrowed: car, house repairs, (6 mos. cruise around the world ) and etc.
5. Medical expenses is the "X" factor for us. A quick early death is the key to enough money in retirement. I could live rather well for a decade. (by my Toyota Corolla standards )

 

[doddg]

So are you saying your net income after living expenses post retirement equals your net income after living expenses working. Dang, I should have been a teacher!

1. We've always lived well below our means, buying less house and cars than we could have (just 2 examples).
2. Early on, we did it b/c we had to, and then later we learned that was the secret to "wealth."
3. Example on houses where I should have always bought a more expensive house, even my last one:
1st (1975 or '76) = $24,000
2nd (1990ish) = $15,000 (complete renovation) (sold for $30k)
3rd (1985 here in Indy) = $30,000 (sold for $40kish)
4th (1988ish) = $60,000 = sold for $67 or 69kish)
5th (1990ish) = $90,000 (sold for $155,000)
6th Nov. 2017 = $135,000
4. A report on cars would be even more boring.

 

[doddg]

I read this whole thread again.
It is the type of processing that I like to do, with getting feedback.
One person said something about an angry response to something, and I have no idea to what he was referring to: much gets lost in translation of wit and humor in print and I have learned that my direct conversation style can get lost in print since humor is primo with me, albeit: dry.
They also told me to act my age. OK. Sometimes you just have to laugh!

Advice like working at least another year is imminently practical, but I think I'd prefer to do a part-time job (as many recommended) for a change here in my "last days."

There is a disparity between my net income in retirement that is $1000 lower/month.
This does not allow for my major "pile" of money, which when considered as a monthly income would cut that disparity down to about $350/month, and I know that amount will be a wash b/c I know of 1 expense in retirement costing $255 that will not be there anymore, and there will be other things like that, but then, there will be other expenses added on like $150/mo. of a long term care policy: in the event of not having the luxury of a quick death.

An approach that someone mentioned (that I had thought of due to economic practicalities) to shoot 1 box/mo. of ammo of 9mm of my CC using those "drill" targets which I thought had much merit.
I'll have my .22LR guns to provide much amusement for me that will be the mainstay of my range time.

It will be very interesting to see how the monthly expense average will change after retirement (I keep strict records of all expenses).
I have been stocking up on ammo (as advised) when prices call out to me.
Having just two calibers does streamline that quite a bit.
While still working, I will enjoy the occasional buying/selling of a gun just to "test it out" like I did yesterday with the Ruger P95 I picked up from a wonderful friend here in the club. He had an older Sig (police gun) that must have had a 20# D/A 1st pull (not kidding), but I passed on that since the Ruger would do everything I needed to fulfill my "gun lust" for the time being.
Really wondering if I should look into a Phantom (thoughts I can have while still working ).

 

[Alpo]

I've been thinking about selling my Dillon 550. When my son lived a few miles away, we used to shoot weekly in competitions. Probably reloaded 20,000 rounds a year or more. Then he moved, decided to have a family and his 650 and 1050 probably haven't been used in 3 years.

As CM said, it's just easier to buy the stuff I need nowadays. I hate to part with a reloader that I've used for so many years and forced me to learn a whole new set of cuss words....but maybe it's time.

 

[BE Mike]

I'm late to the game. I've been retired for 19 years. I was worried that we wouldn't be able to live without my job, but a recently retired friend told me that I'd be surprised at how much less income I'd need. He was right. I also got into reloading very early, so I amortized my equipment early in the game, although I have bought other equipment, including a used Dillon 650 with a lot of free extras. When I retired, I was pretty heavy into competitive shooting. I took some part-time jobs to feed my addiction. I get a pension, so that goes to all of "our" expenses. We each have individual monies we keep separate that we can spend as we please. If you want to retire, do so, but if you want to have some money to spend for your hobbies, get a part-time job and keep enjoying your hobbies. Not having hobbies when retired isn't a good option. Employers are desperately looking for good steady employees. I recently have been offered part-time jobs, even though I'm an old fart and am not seeking employment. If you are going to reload, try to find deals on used equipment and good deals on components. People give up reloading all the time and some of them have accumulated a lifetime of unused components and good condition equipment. Lead pistol bullets will make reloading a viable option, even at your age. I think that a progressive, if you shoot quite a bit of pistol ammo, is the only option. My reason is that you spend less time and effort at the reloading bench. The older you get, you'll be unable to load for long sessions without becoming very tired and tired reloaders make mistakes. The sessions will become shorter and shorter. I get a very small SS monthly check because although I spent decades in the private workforce, my government pension makes getting SS with credit for the years worked in private industry impossible. It is called the "windfall exemption". Good luck. Everyone's financial situation is different, as are physical abilities. Hope things work out for you.

 

[doddg]

I'm late to the game. I've been retired for 19 years. I was worried that we wouldn't be able to live without my job, but a recently retired friend told me that I'd be surprised at how much less income I'd need. He was right. I also got into reloading very early, so I amortized my equipment early in the game, although I have bought other equipment, including a used Dillon 650 with a lot of free extras. When I retired, I was pretty heavy into competitive shooting. I took some part-time jobs to feed my addiction. I get a pension, so that goes to all of "our" expenses. We each have individual monies we keep separate that we can spend as we please. If you want to retire, do so, but if you want to have some money to spend for your hobbies, get a part-time job and keep enjoying your hobbies. Not having hobbies when retired isn't a good option. Employers are desperately looking for good steady employees. I recently have been offered part-time jobs, even though I'm an old fart and am not seeking employment. If you are going to reload, try to find deals on used equipment and good deals on components. People give up reloading all the time and some of them have accumulated a lifetime of unused components and good condition equipment. Lead pistol bullets will make reloading a viable option, even at your age. I think that a progressive, if you shoot quite a bit of pistol ammo, is the only option. My reason is that you spend less time and effort at the reloading bench. The older you get, you'll be unable to load for long sessions without becoming very tired and tired reloaders make mistakes. The sessions will become shorter and shorter. I get a very small SS monthly check because although I spent decades in the private workforce, my government pension makes getting SS with credit for the years worked in private industry impossible. It is called the "windfall exemption". Good luck. Everyone's financial situation is different, as are physical abilities. Hope things work out for you.

1. Thanks Be Mike! I really appreciate you taking the time.
2. I read much of what you said to my wife and we marveled at your pension covering your basic expenses.
3. Not so for a teacher pension, but since I get SS, that could even us up, and between the two for me: it will cover our basic expenses, and we will have a small "pile" to cover extra-ordinary expenses. When that runs out, we are in trouble, but we will still eat, and for fun, if I have the energy, there is always the wife who is my friend-with-benefits.