RareBreed FRT trigger declared a machinegun.

[edwea]

The atf is going to keep this crap up pushing more and more until somebody smacks their hand. Who will that be? Until then, this is just a game of incremental loss of rights.

 

[KJQ6945]

Here is the complaint he filed against the DOJ, and the ATF. It’s a long read, but it will answer most questions.

Rare Breed Triggers Complaint Against the ATF and DOJ

Since somebody posted the ATF's Cease and Desist Letter, I felt it would be a good act for the community at large to login to PACER myself and get the full story. The following are the contents of Rare Breed's complaint filed against the ATF and Dept of Justice, their supporting documents and...

theinfidel.co

 

[KJQ6945]

In regards to the question, did he get ATF approval? He didn’t, but Tac Con did when they released the 3MR in 2013. 3MR stands for third mode reset.

He included the ATFs letter to Tac Con in his complaint. The triggers do the same thing. They reset themselves. The 3MR trigger has been in the market for almost 8 years.

 

[Tombs]

So is it a binary trigger or something different?

No.

It has a "not" autosear. The trigger does not have a disconnector.

What happens is, the "not" autosear behaves as a disconnector that forcibly resets the trigger every time the bolt goes home. So as long as you hold down on the trigger, the trigger will bump its self forward, and you'll pull the trigger every shot.

 

[Tombs]

In regards to the question, did he get ATF approval? He didn’t, but Tac Con did when they released the 3MR in 2013. 3MR stands for third mode reset.

He included the ATFs letter to Tac Con in his complaint. The triggers do the same thing. They reset themselves. The 3MR trigger has been in the market for almost 8 years.

The 3MR does not fully reset its self. The FRT trigger fully resets its self.

The 3MR basically gives you a slight bump forward, which assists in resetting the trigger faster and will start bump firing if you find the sweet spot. The FRT will do it through brute force.

 

[WebSnyper]

I have never seen any proof where they got an ATF approval. Only that they had 4 of their experts (ATF experts who the ATF themself call experts and use in court as such), say they were not machineguns. From there they started selling, without a letter from the ATF (as others have said doesn't really mean much but has been the standard for the industry when doing questionable things they knew likely wouldn't stand the test of time).

Or, if you are a lawyer, which appears the owner of the company is, go one better and make them go to court and get a judgment rather than just a letter the ATF itself can rescind.

He got reviews from several sources that the ATF has and would have potentially used as expert witnesses, heading them off there.

Seems like he's willing to take some very calculated risk to challenge the ATF and get a judgment in his favor.

 

[ScouT6a]

Because free ppl don't ask permission. And by literally every definition published this trigger isn't a machine gun.

And that is fine if those free people have enough money and time to fight the .gov who have no problem putting people in jail for lesser issues.

 

[ScouT6a]

The 3MR does not fully reset its self. The FRT trigger fully resets its self.

The 3MR basically gives you a slight bump forward, which assists in resetting the trigger faster and will start bump firing if you find the sweet spot. The FRT will do it through brute force.

I think this is the sole reason why companies submit their inventions to the ATF for approval, as a precaution.

Not fool proof, by any means, as we saw with bump fire stock, but it is another tool.

 

[BigRed]

I think this is the sole reason why companies submit their inventions to the ATF for approval, as a precaution.

Not fool proof, by any means, as we saw with bump fire stock, but it is another tool.

I read that bump stocks are just range toys so no need to care......here on INGO.

 

[qwerty]

If history teaches us anything, poking the government rules will result in them killing your wife and child then burn down your residence with everyone inside. Best of luck.

 

[KJQ6945]

For those that didn’t read the complaint, the owner of the company is a lawyer. The company address is the same address as his law office.

The opinion letters that he got prior to this, from the retired ATF guys weren’t just special agents. They were the heads of departments, leaders of the academy, the guys that wrote the training manuals. The real experts in the field. The experts that the ATF calls on.

I’m getting a feeling that the impending lawsuit was the purpose of producing these triggers, not selling triggers.
Have they produced other products? I’m curious.

 

[ScouT6a]

For those that didn’t read the complaint, the owner of the company is a lawyer. The company address is the same address as his law office.

The opinion letters that he got prior to this, from the retired ATF guys weren’t just special agents. They were the heads of departments, leaders of the academy, the guys that wrote the training manuals. The real experts in the field. The experts that the ATF calls on.

I’m getting a feeling that the impending lawsuit was the purpose of producing these triggers, not selling triggers.
Have they produced other products? I’m curious.

I thought there website said they manufactured AR15s, too. ???

 

[ScouT6a]

For those that didn’t read the complaint, the owner of the company is a lawyer. The company address is the same address as his law office.

The opinion letters that he got prior to this, from the retired ATF guys weren’t just special agents. They were the heads of departments, leaders of the academy, the guys that wrote the training manuals. The real experts in the field. The experts that the ATF calls on.

I’m getting a feeling that the impending lawsuit was the purpose of producing these triggers, not selling triggers.
Have they produced other products? I’m curious.

I thought the experts that they got to examine it were all retired?

Why would their opinion matter when the ATF could draw from current employees from their FTB? Just asking.

 

[KJQ6945]

I thought the experts that they got to examine it were all retired?

Why would their opinion matter when the ATF could draw from current employees from their FTB? Just asking.

Yes, the letters are from retired experts.

I’m making no claims here, it just looks to me like this guy started lawyering way before he started making a controversial trigger. Let’s see what comes of it.

 

[DadSmith]

Yes, the letters are from retired experts.

I’m making no claims here, it just looks to me like this guy started lawyering way before he started making a controversial trigger. Let’s see what comes of it.

I read the papers and I don't see how an honest judge would not rule in his favor. However, this will get very political and the facts may not matter vs feelings.

 

[MindfulMan]

45 Days, 22 Hours, 48 Minutes ... until the glorious FGE !

 

[Angrysauce]

What a shame this package is all I will have to remember it by because I'm a proud, law abiding gun owner.

 

[Ggreen]

I thought the experts that they got to examine it were all retired?

Why would their opinion matter when the ATF could draw from current employees from their FTB? Just asking.

Because word of law matters. By every definition of the law passed by Congress, ignoring for now how treasonous and unconstitutional the gca and nfa are, the word of law matters more than a sliding scale of biased opinion from a rogue agency actively suppressing and subverting the constitutional rights of free people.

There is no law that requires aft approval , not that that is worth anything. They go back and forth over and again

 

[WebSnyper]

Yes, the letters are from retired experts.

I’m making no claims here, it just looks to me like this guy started lawyering way before he started making a controversial trigger. Let’s see what comes of it.

They were retired from ATF, but still active in the private sector in roles that would still make them likely expert witnesses. And I agree, I think the owner was ready for this to occur.

 

[two70]

Let's decimate federal agencies.

I like exterminate better, removing one in ten would hardly be noticeable.