Range USA - a cautionary tale

[injb]

The short version of this story is: after getting ATF approval for my first suppressor (over 370 days!) the dealer (Range USA in Carmel) refused to hand it over because of my immigration status (which they knew all along). I eventually got the can after Silencer Shop intervened but it was not clear that I was ever going to get it until I walked out the door with it today.

OK here's the long verison:

I am a green card holder. I bought the can through SilencerShop last November. Naturally I entered all my info on my SilencerShop profile, and it was all included in the eform that Range USA submitted. About 5 months later I found out when trying to buy a gun there that they changed their company policy - they would no longer sell guns to green card holders. I emailed their customer service in disbelief and they confirmed this, saying that the ATF threatened to revoke their FFL. When I asked about my pending suppressor, nothing. Radio silence. So I started emailing SilencerShop. I'm not sure what was going on with them but it took 4 months to get a reply.

All this time my eform4 was left pending, but I had no idea if I was waiting for nothing. Should I cancel after 9 months and start again somewhere else? I know that literally any other FFL will deal with me, no problem. But maybe I'm close to approval, so I might as well wait? SilencerShop told me to go and talk to the manager. The manager gave me the runaround. He fed me a string of lies about how they have no involvement in the form 4 process etc, and flat out refused to tell me if they would give me the can when I get approved. So I left knowing nothing new, except that the manager has a personality disorder.

So this month I finally got the approval email from the ATF and the next day I got a call from Range USA saying I could come in and pick up the can. I had a feeling that it was a generic statement, and they didn't really mean it in my case, but I took them at their word and went in and filled out the 4473 in person. Sure enough, the guy said "this is going to take a bit longer, we need to get the boss to approve it". After having me wait for an hour, they sent me away and said they'd call me. For the next week I kept getting the runaround from them. At first it was just a brief delay, then they admitted they had no idea what the hold up was. I emailed customer service again, and was again ignored. At this point I became convinced that they had no intention of handing it over.

I contacted SS again and the the guy there ultimately escalated it to the SS VP. By today I still hadn't heard anything and I had given up. I was pretty sure I was just waiting for a form 4 cancellation email and a tax stamp refund. I was going to call the ATF and see if I could kick up a stink that way...but the SS guys must have lit a fire under them because they called me today to pick it up. They still made me wait for them to do 30 mins of paperwork when I came in but I did leave with the can, finally.

Now it's been made clear to me in the past that some people on INGO think this policy is a wonderful idea. Fine if that's your opinion. But I urge you to consider that Range USA didn't do this for idealogical reasons. They did it because they thought it would be convenient for them, and if they will do this to me, do you want to trust them with your year+ long wait? They could whimsically decide not to do any more NFA transfers for anyone, and from my experience, they won't bother to notify you.

Most dealers understand that the NFA process is long and people are already being messed with enough by the ATF. You do not mess with people's NFA applications. Nobody wants to waste months or a year and have to start again. Back when they adopted this smooth brained policy they could have either cancelled my form, or assured me that my transfer would be honored. Fair enough I ultimately got my property from them but I'm pretty sure that's only because SilencerShop pressured them into it. Be warned!

 

[indyblue]

RUSA has rubbed quite a few members here the wrong way.
Some of us here, have a pretty low opinion of them.

Glad you finally got your merchandise.

 

[Cameramonkey]

RUSA has rubbed quite a few members here the wrong way.
Some of us here, have a pretty low opinion of them.

Glad you finally got your merchandise.

First, sorry about your hassle. Welcome to the " We hate RUSA" club.

Yep. This is no surprise. I feel dirty even driving past their stores.

RUSA is scum. Before the name change, as Shoot Point Blank they instituted a mandatory ID scan policy for EVERY sale. Regardless of the legal necessity.

Need targets or cleaning patches? Gotta scan your ID. No exceptions.

And dont get me started on non govt agencies demanding to scan the barcode on your DL to harvest your info for marketing when all that is needed is a visual confirmation that you are of the legal age.

 

[BigMoose]

I went by 500 Guns the other day. They said that the 4473s of people with Green Cards are automatically going delayed, and they never change it from delayed. Every single one

I am not sure why, but apparently all the green card holders from one demographic have all been going to 500 guns to buy Concealed Carry type pistols.
The staff doesn't know why them, as the mostly deal with wood and steel stuff.

There is a new sign on the door outside warning of this.

 

[indyblue]

RUSA is scum.

You said what I was trying to say more diplomatically.

Bravo

 

[BigMoose]

The short version of this story is: after getting ATF approval for my first suppressor (over 370 days!) the dealer (Range USA in Carmel) refused to hand it over because of my immigration status (which they knew all along). I eventually got the can after Silencer Shop intervened but it was not clear that I was ever going to get it until I walked out the door with it today.

OK here's the long verison:

I am a green card holder. I bought the can through SilencerShop last November. Naturally I entered all my info on my SilencerShop profile, and it was all included in the eform that Range USA submitted. About 5 months later I found out when trying to buy a gun there that they changed their company policy - they would no longer sell guns to green card holders. I emailed their customer service in disbelief and they confirmed this, saying that the ATF threatened to revoke their FFL. When I asked about my pending suppressor, nothing. Radio silence. So I started emailing SilencerShop. I'm not sure what was going on with them but it took 4 months to get a reply.

All this time my eform4 was left pending, but I had no idea if I was waiting for nothing. Should I cancel after 9 months and start again somewhere else? I know that literally any other FFL will deal with me, no problem. But maybe I'm close to approval, so I might as well wait? SilencerShop told me to go and talk to the manager. The manager gave me the runaround. He fed me a string of lies about how they have no involvement in the form 4 process etc, and flat out refused to tell me if they would give me the can when I get approved. So I left knowing nothing new, except that the manager has a personality disorder.

So this month I finally got the approval email from the ATF and the next day I got a call from Range USA saying I could come in and pick up the can. I had a feeling that it was a generic statement, and they didn't really mean it in my case, but I took them at their word and went in and filled out the 4473 in person. Sure enough, the guy said "this is going to take a bit longer, we need to get the boss to approve it". After having me wait for an hour, they sent me away and said they'd call me. For the next week I kept getting the runaround from them. At first it was just a brief delay, then they admitted they had no idea what the hold up was. I emailed customer service again, and was again ignored. At this point I became convinced that they had no intention of handing it over.

I contacted SS again and the the guy there ultimately escalated it to the SS VP. By today I still hadn't heard anything and I had given up. I was pretty sure I was just waiting for a form 4 cancellation email and a tax stamp refund. I was going to call the ATF and see if I could kick up a stink that way...but the SS guys must have lit a fire under them because they called me today to pick it up. They still made me wait for them to do 30 mins of paperwork when I came in but I did leave with the can, finally.

Now it's been made clear to me in the past that some people on INGO think this policy is a wonderful idea. Fine if that's your opinion. But I urge you to consider that Range USA didn't do this for idealogical reasons. They did it because they thought it would be convenient for them, and if they will do this to me, do you want to trust them with your year+ long wait? They could whimsically decide not to do any more NFA transfers for anyone, and from my experience, they won't bother to notify you.

Most dealers understand that the NFA process is long and people are already being messed with enough by the ATF. You do not mess with people's NFA applications. Nobody wants to waste months or a year and have to start again. Back when they adopted this smooth brained policy they could have either cancelled my form, or assured me that my transfer would be honored. Fair enough I ultimately got my property from them but I'm pretty sure that's only because SilencerShop pressured them into it. Be warned!

BATFE is auto locking 4473 checks for Green Card holders to delay, and never giving it another look.

 

[injb]

BATFE is auto locking 4473 checks for Green Card holders to delay, and never giving it another look.

Strange. Although it wouldn't be them since it's the FBI that runs NICS. But I have personally never been delayed more than 72 hours, and usually far less than that.

 

[Cameramonkey]

BATFE is auto locking 4473 checks for Green Card holders to delay, and never giving it another look.

If true, another reason to use nothing but LGS' and NEVER big box stores.

A LGS can "thumb their nose" at the ATF and release the item after the timeout with no deny. A big box store will never do that.

 

[BigMoose]

Strange. Although it wouldn't be them since it's the FBI that runs NICS. But I have personally never been delayed more than 72 hours, and usually far less than that.

Well yeah whoever is doing them, Is just locking them Delay..
So much so that 500 Guns put up a sign about it, they were doing a 4473 on a green card holder. They pretty much told him to come back right on the timeout day.

 

[BigMoose]

If true, another reason to use nothing but LGS' and NEVER big box stores.

A LGS can "thumb their nose" at the ATF and release the item after the timeout with no deny. A big box store will never do that.

True. Delay status in most big boxes just means.. you don't get the gun.

 

[injb]

Well yeah whoever is doing them, Is just locking them Delay..
So much so that 500 Guns put up a sign about it, they were doing a 4473 on a green card holder. They pretty much told him to come back right on the timeout day.

If I had to guess I'd say it's a Black Friday thing. My experience has been that green card holders go automatically into delay for e-checks. A lot of people don't know this but there are 2 tiers at work in NICS. The first tier only does instant approvals. They either give an instant green light, or they issue a delay and throw it over the wall to the examiners. The examiners have a backlog and so when things get busy, people on delay feel it more. I bet everyone who gets delayed is getting delayed longer than usual.

500 Guns sounds like a cool place though, I hadn't heard of them before.

 

[BigMoose]

500 Guns sounds like a cool place though, I hadn't heard of them before.

Its interesting.

500 Guns Web Page

its next to the track, but not in the nicest place.

 

[cosermann]

Have an Asian friend who’s a grad student. Guy has the gun bug and has researched how to satisfy it given his status. He says his NICS check is always delayed a bit as they have the extra step of verifying his immigration status. Sounds plausible, I guess. Who knows what goes on in the black box of the .gov these days?

 

[Cameramonkey]

True. Delay status in most big boxes just means.. you don't get the gun.

While I was making Dicks lose money on a loss leader one Black friday many moons ago, the clerk escorting me and my rifle to the register told me of a guy who always gets delayed. And policy was to never release without a clear "proceed". ATF would never contact the store and would assume they would release after 3 days like they were allowed. Dude spent 3 months trying to get his gun before giving up because it was ALWAYS "delay". Presumably he went to a LGS and got it.

 

[shootersix]

Unless things have changed since 2019 (when the shop I worked in closed) you didnt need to call Nics on a class 3 item, yes you still filled out the 4473, but that was for the shops records and to prove it was disposed to the transferee.

The background check is actually done by the nfa branch of the batfe.

I purchased my can from the estate of a friend who passed, his lawyer who is a big nfa guy (sub guns, belt feds and suppressors ) just handed me the can when he got approval from the atf!

 

[injb]

Unless things have changed since 2019 (when the shop I worked in closed) you didnt need to call Nics on a class 3 item, yes you still filled out the 4473, but that was for the shops records and to prove it was disposed to the transferee.

The background check is actually done by the nfa branch of the batfe.

I purchased my can from the estate of a friend who passed, his lawyer who is a big nfa guy (sub guns, belt feds and suppressors ) just handed me the can when he got approval from the atf!

Yes that's still how it works for suppressors.

 

[shootersix]

Yes that's still how it works for suppressors.

Then rusa should have handed you your can and said thanks! Next time I’d try another dealer! (And not copper customs!, they do a nice check too!)

 

[injb]

Then rusa should have handed you your can and said thanks! Next time I’d try another dealer! (And not copper customs!, they do a nice check too!)

They didn't refuse it in order to run a NICS check though, they refused it because it's their company policy not to transfer stuff to green card holders.

 

[shootersix]

They didn't refuse it in order to run a NICS check though, they refused it because it's their company policy not to transfer stuff to green card holders.

Refusal to serve a green card holder…that sounds like a discrimination lawsuit waiting to happen!

 

[Tactically Fat]

Hello, Redditor.