Politically Motivated Violence Thread PART 2

[Alpo]

Yet.

I guess I oughta put the batteries back in my Sordins then?

 

[BugI02]

I guess I oughta put the batteries back in my Sordins then?

Your Eotechs and Aimpoints, too

 

[Keith_Indy]

The video appears to show that a plan was afoot to aggravate Keltner into taking action. And, that when Doloff tried to grab Keltner's pistol, Keltner backed up and sprayed at Doloff. And I'm thinking that as planned, Doloff then shot Keltner. So any how, that's how it looks to me. But as said above, for now (pending more info).

What video would that be?

 

[NKBJ]

Saw it on the news yesterday. They were talking about the sequence of events. The confrontation, what looks like the perp making a move for Keltner's gun, Keltner fending him off, Keltner retreating, then the shooting.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Saw it on the news yesterday. They were talking about the sequence of events. The confrontation, what looks like the perp making a move for Keltner's gun, Keltner fending him off, Keltner retreating, then the shooting.

you missing a few steps in that exchange?

 

[NKBJ]

Plenty. What in particular are you reaching for?

 

[Keith_Indy]

I mean, it's an interesting theory. But, assuming the sights weren't off, they were aligned with where it hit. So what did he intend to hit, and did he hit it? He's saying that he thought the guy was pulling a gun. The guy he thought was pulling a gun got shot.

From what I see in the pictures, where the spent casing is in the air, and there is a cloud of pepper spray, the shooter did not have a sight picture, he doesn't even appear to be looking through the sights yet.

The distance from the cartridge to the gun isn't measurable in the still pictures, although to me it looks within a foot or two based on the size of the cartridge relative to the handgun. One could presumably measure this stuff if you knew the caliber of pistol. Then you could determine how soon after the gun was fired before that frame was taken.

I suppose it could be that the shooter had such a good grip on his gun that while the slide is still not fully forward from firing the pistol, he's already pushed down on it to counter the recoil, thus making it appear that the gun was not aimed below the shooters line of site when it was fired.

Or, Occams razor, he did not have his eyes aligned on the sights before firing.

In fact, the frame after the shot, looks like he has settled and is aiming through the sights.

It's a theory, just my take on it, all CONJECTURE, I could be wrong, I'm not married to it. If there's better video of the incident out there, I'd merrily revise my opinion. In the end, IT DON'T MATTER WHAT I THINK

We're talking 1/10ths of a second, and there are missing frames. Videos I've seen so far do not fill this period in.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Plenty. What in particular are you reaching for?

Argument, slap, pepper spray?

 

[NKBJ]

Yes, we all know about that. What's your point?

 

[jamil]

From what I see in the pictures, where the spent casing is in the air, and there is a cloud of pepper spray, the shooter did not have a sight picture, he doesn't even appear to be looking through the sights yet.

The distance from the cartridge to the gun isn't measurable in the still pictures, although to me it looks within a foot or two based on the size of the cartridge relative to the handgun. One could presumably measure this stuff if you knew the caliber of pistol. Then you could determine how soon after the gun was fired before that frame was taken.

I suppose it could be that the shooter had such a good grip on his gun that while the slide is still not fully forward from firing the pistol, he's already pushed down on it to counter the recoil, thus making it appear that the gun was not aimed below the shooters line of site when it was fired.

Or, Occams razor, he did not have his eyes aligned on the sights before firing.

In fact, the frame after the shot, looks like he has settled and is aiming through the sights.

It's a theory, just my take on it, all CONJECTURE, I could be wrong, I'm not married to it. If there's better video of the incident out there, I'd merrily revise my opinion. In the end, IT DON'T MATTER WHAT I THINK

We're talking 1/10ths of a second, and there are missing frames. Videos I've seen so far do not fill this period in.

In that photo, it’s out of battery. The bullet has already left the gun at that point.

 

[jamil]

Argument, slap, pepper spray?

Argument, reach, slap, draw, near simultaneous spray/gunshot.

 

[Kutnupe14]

From what I see in the pictures, where the spent casing is in the air, and there is a cloud of pepper spray, the shooter did not have a sight picture, he doesn't even appear to be looking through the sights yet.

The distance from the cartridge to the gun isn't measurable in the still pictures, although to me it looks within a foot or two based on the size of the cartridge relative to the handgun. One could presumably measure this stuff if you knew the caliber of pistol. Then you could determine how soon after the gun was fired before that frame was taken.

I suppose it could be that the shooter had such a good grip on his gun that while the slide is still not fully forward from firing the pistol, he's already pushed down on it to counter the recoil, thus making it appear that the gun was not aimed below the shooters line of site when it was fired.

Or, Occams razor, he did not have his eyes aligned on the sights before firing.

In fact, the frame after the shot, looks like he has settled and is aiming through the sights.

It's a theory, just my take on it, all CONJECTURE, I could be wrong, I'm not married to it. If there's better video of the incident out there, I'd merrily revise my opinion. In the end, IT DON'T MATTER WHAT I THINK

We're talking 1/10ths of a second, and there are missing frames. Videos I've seen so far do not fill this period in.

I wouldn’t know, personally, but I’d have a hard time believing most defensive firearm uses from that distance the shooter relies on the sight. I’ve shot enough to know, that “point and shoot” would be my go to.... and have confidence that form and grip would ensure rounds on target.

 

[Keith_Indy]

Saw it on the news yesterday. They were talking about the sequence of events. The confrontation, what looks like the perp making a move for Keltner's gun, Keltner fending him off, Keltner retreating, then the shooting.

OK, what station? What time?

The video I last posted above shows the argument that was occurring with the agitator and Keltner. Something I just noticed in re-watching it was the Denver Post photographer getting close ups. Keltner notices the photographer and video being made, adjusts the neck gaiter, then says
Keltner says "...cameras out. this is not a place for a camera"

someone says "f... you"

Keltner says "get the cameras out of here or I'm going to f--- you up."

someone says "don't f---ing touch me"

here is the last frame of the video.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Argument, reach, slap, draw, near simultaneous spray/gunshot.

Oh yes, the “reach” inside the vest or for gun on hip. As for near simultaneous spray/gunshot, I not so sure. I’d assume (and it’s just an assumption) given the distance the spray traveled, if the vic had used a firearm, he would have easily beat the other guy to the draw.

 

[2A_Tom]

I wouldn’t know, personally, but I’d have a hard time believing most defensive firearm uses from that distance the shooter relies on the sight. I’ve shot enough to know, that “point and shoot” would be my go to.... and have confidence that form and grip would ensure rounds on target.

Yes, but... that would be me shooting center of mass, I would not attempt a head shot on my first round.

 

[jamil]

Oh yes, the “reach” inside the vest or for gun on hip. As for near simultaneous spray/gunshot, I not so sure. I’d assume (and it’s just an assumption) given the distance the spray traveled, if the vic had used a firearm, he would have easily beat the other guy to the draw.

I’m still not sure about any firearm on the victim. Some people here are saying it but I have not seen that confirmed by police. As far as the reach, maybe he was trying to take a gun away. Maybe he was trying to grab the mace. It may just be the shooter getting hands on trying to stop the victim from getting too close to the producer.

 

[jamil]

Yes, but... that would be me shooting center of mass, I would not attempt a head shot on my first round.

Maybe that’s what he was going for.

 

[looper]

There is a lot of information in the article I link, Including missing photos intentionally held back. If you've already seen this I apologize.

https://www.redstate.com/shipwrecke...rder-at-pro-trump-rally-may-have-some-issues/

 

[Route 45]

From what I see in the pictures, where the spent casing is in the air, and there is a cloud of pepper spray, the shooter did not have a sight picture, he doesn't even appear to be looking through the sights yet.

The distance from the cartridge to the gun isn't measurable in the still pictures, although to me it looks within a foot or two based on the size of the cartridge relative to the handgun. One could presumably measure this stuff if you knew the caliber of pistol. Then you could determine how soon after the gun was fired before that frame was taken.

I suppose it could be that the shooter had such a good grip on his gun that while the slide is still not fully forward from firing the pistol, he's already pushed down on it to counter the recoil, thus making it appear that the gun was not aimed below the shooters line of site when it was fired.

Or, Occams razor, he did not have his eyes aligned on the sights before firing.

In fact, the frame after the shot, looks like he has settled and is aiming through the sights.

It's a theory, just my take on it, all CONJECTURE, I could be wrong, I'm not married to it. If there's better video of the incident out there, I'd merrily revise my opinion. In the end, IT DON'T MATTER WHAT I THINK

We're talking 1/10ths of a second, and there are missing frames. Videos I've seen so far do not fill this period in.

Your alignment lines are incorrect. The pistol is clearly in full recoil at the instant that this photo was taken, thus the upward cant. (Note the slide position and ejected casing) The resolution is not sufficient to see it, but the bullet has no doubt already entered the victim. This picture was taken way after sight picture/trigger pull, in terms of milliseconds. Your lines also do not account for the angle at which the picture was taken and the position of the shooter and victim in relation to the camera. The shooter is clearly closer to the camera than the victim. There is no way that you can determine whether the sights are aligned at the time of firing, because there is no image (that we've seen so far) that shows the exact instant of trigger pull, including this image.

 

[looper]

just before shot, next 2 frames missing