Police taser 86 year old disabled woman.

[jsharmon7]

I'm sure an 86 year old woman is going to jump out of her bed and go all Jackie Chan on you.

No, but how is he going to get the knife away from her, in bed or otherwise, without getting cut? I don't think Denny was saying he's concerned she's going to flip over his head and stab him, but you aren't going to get the knife away without getting cut.

I don't think we have enough details on this story to really make a comment about whether these officers did the right thing. It looks bad because she's 86 years old, but an officer getting cut up trying to disarm her is worse than her getting the taser, if that's even the way it really happened. But that's just my .

 

[JBusch8899]

No, but how is he going to get the knife away from her, in bed or otherwise, without getting cut? I don't think Denny was saying he's concerned she's going to flip over his head and stab him, but you aren't going to get the knife away without getting cut.

I don't think we have enough details on this story to really make a comment about whether these officers did the right thing. It looks bad because she's 86 years old, but an officer getting cut up trying to disarm her is worse than her getting the taser, if that's even the way it really happened. But that's just my .

She could be Hell bent to cut herself as well. A tazer is certainly preferable to to a knife across an artery.

 

[Panama]

One quick hard one right across the forehead..........she'll drop the knife!

 

[public servant]

I find it interesting how some people are so quick to judge and find fault with the cops without knowing the whole story. Yet if they were in the place of the officers, they would want the benefit of the doubt and be yelling, "I'm innocent until proven guilty".
It's funny the people that have never been LEO's yet want to say this is how it should have been done or the cops should have done this.

If someone wants to kill themself........let 'em. Why do we try to stop them? To me, stopping someone from taking their own life is just about the most ridiculous bunch of crap I've ever heard of. Especially if you stop them by means of violent force alla tazer. If someone wants to take their own life, it should be their right to do so.

I'm good with them committing suicide as well...but disgruntled loved ones generally file civil lawsuits. My pockets aren't that deep.

 

[Indy317]

I'm sure an 86 year old woman is going to jump out of her bed and go all Jackie Chan on you.

So are you saying that there is no 86 year old woman that could stab a person with a knife? Shoot someone with a gun? Cause any kind of harm to another person? Since when is a simple stabbing motion, or slicing motion "all Jackie Chan?" The cops should have to take some cuts, right? Or at least a stab to the neck before using any force?

This entire case is another "damned if they do, damned if they don't" situation for the cops.

-The cops leave and do nothing, mom dies, or someone else gets injured, they get sued.

-The cops let the son go and deal with knife armed mom. She slices, dices, and/or stabs son. Son suffers serious injuries or dies, cops get blamed for allowing son to enter a "dangerous situation" and get sued.

-Cops go hands on to disarm mom. Cops get injured or killed, no one cares. Mom gets injured and/or killed, cops get accused of brutality and sued.

-Cops let EMS handle the issue. EMS gets sliced, diced, and/or stabbed. Cops get blamed for letting EMS enter a dangerous situation and they get sued.

No wonder more and more decent folks want to avoid working in law enforcement. Society is demanding LEOs being the ones where the buck stops, yet when they take necessary action to prevent injury from themselves or anyone else, society wants to blast the cops. Maybe it is time to just allow people to off themselves? Is that what everyone wants? Should cops be responding to suicidal people? If cops aren't going, should be force untrained and unarmed EMS/Fire to deal with these folks who are having mental issues? If you ask me, go ahead and put this stuff on friends and family. Make them disarm mom, wrestle her to the car, drive her to the hospital, and wrestle her down on a hospital bed. Then only after family and friends have such a person totally immobilized to where they don't present any threat to anyone else, medical personnel can start their jobs.

 

[j706]

Not being biased but the police version makes much more sense. No officer is going to just Taze a 86 year old woman for the heck of it. Anyone that thinks story number 1 is credible is plain old dense. Pull a knife on LE or threaten LE with s a knife,and at the least you will be tazed, at the worse you will be shot.

I was recently at a suicidal intoxicated male that had threatened suicide. He was barricaded in his very small room. I drew my weapon and my partner drew his Taser. I kicked in the door and we made our entry. He was siting on his bed with a knife to his throat. I told him three times to drop the knife. On four my partner Tazed him. He fell back on the bed and dropped the knife. I was able to secure him during the second Taser cycle. Had the Taser failed and or had our guy stood, he would have most assuredly been shot. A perfect resalution to a potentially lethal situation. The mom didn't like it and was very upset. She threatened a suit. Who cares, everyone threatens a lawsuit. Bottom line is she (Or he) didn't have a case.

Tasers save lives. The media has some big problem with the Taser. The Taser is a marvelous tool. Verbal non compliance,pulling away ect will get you Tazed. I will Taze you before I ever touch you in that type situation.

The OP version was all BS. It was typical lawyer spin. As far as version two (Police Version) it all makes perfect sense and those guys did the right thing.

Someone posted about EMS handling suicidal subjects, yea right!! EMS woill not even come close to those calls without LE presence being there. The way it should be.

Remember-Suicidal by definition is homicidal.

 

[hornadylnl]

I guess I should have been using purple in this thread. I agree that the cops version of the story sounds much more plausible. Probably dying and broke and looking for a way to leave an inheritance. But being 86, couldn't they have waited for her to doze off for a nap?

So are you saying that there is no 86 year old woman that could stab a person with a knife? Shoot someone with a gun? Cause any kind of harm to another person? Since when is a simple stabbing motion, or slicing motion "all Jackie Chan?" The cops should have to take some cuts, right? Or at least a stab to the neck before using any force?

This entire case is another "damned if they do, damned if they don't" situation for the cops.

-The cops leave and do nothing, mom dies, or someone else gets injured, they get sued.

-The cops let the son go and deal with knife armed mom. She slices, dices, and/or stabs son. Son suffers serious injuries or dies, cops get blamed for allowing son to enter a "dangerous situation" and get sued.

-Cops go hands on to disarm mom. Cops get injured or killed, no one cares. Mom gets injured and/or killed, cops get accused of brutality and sued.

-Cops let EMS handle the issue. EMS gets sliced, diced, and/or stabbed. Cops get blamed for letting EMS enter a dangerous situation and they get sued.

No wonder more and more decent folks want to avoid working in law enforcement. Society is demanding LEOs being the ones where the buck stops, yet when they take necessary action to prevent injury from themselves or anyone else, society wants to blast the cops. Maybe it is time to just allow people to off themselves? Is that what everyone wants? Should cops be responding to suicidal people? If cops aren't going, should be force untrained and unarmed EMS/Fire to deal with these folks who are having mental issues? If you ask me, go ahead and put this stuff on friends and family. Make them disarm mom, wrestle her to the car, drive her to the hospital, and wrestle her down on a hospital bed. Then only after family and friends have such a person totally immobilized to where they don't present any threat to anyone else, medical personnel can start their jobs.

 

[Indy317]

But being 86, couldn't they have waited for her to doze off for a nap?

So you are told someone has taken an over dose of pills. No one knows anything, and that is the problem. The longer they wait, the more likely she dies, the more money the city pays out in the lawsuit. Dozing off, in this situation, could really be dying. So yea, I guess they could have waited for her to die, then they could have disarmed her safely then. We would still have the same outrage from the Monday morning quarterbacks though: Cops kill granny.

 

[Dogman]

But being 86, couldn't they have waited for her to doze off for a nap?

They stepped on her oxygen hose trying to knock her out.

 

[Prometheus]

Suicide calls PD will always go with FD. In fact, they will usually sit off the address until PD shows up and secures the scene. Only then will they approach the home.

+1 As a former FF/EMT I'll tell you there was no way I'm going in a house of a mentally disturbed individual w/o the SO/PD.

They didn't let us carry anything to defend ourselves. Anytime someone complained, I asked they take it up with the County Commissioners and allow us the ability to defend ourselves and we wouldn't be as likely to wait for a secure scene all the time. Funny, they didn't like that idea either On housing areas where it was 'the norm', we'd go and someone would bring a halligan tool.

Something does sound fishy about the two different stories.... I'm willing to bet it's somewhere in the middle.

Having dealt with a lot of older folks, they are VERY possessive about their homes and who comes in. Heck just 4 of us (two from an engine and 2 from the bus) would be enough to **** them off. Almost half the time a bored deputy would show up and the Blue Hairs would freak out and start screaming for them to leave" "I didn't call you here! Get out of here! What will the neighbors think?!?!?!"

The situation always played out the same way, in the county, the deputy would look at us and we'd nod out heads we we were fine and they'd go outside. In the city, the PD would get into an hour long argument about how they had a "right to be here" and ultimately threaten to arrest the elderly home owner.

Reading both stories, my best guess? PD showed up and the old woman got pissed and told them to leave, they refused, she brandished a knife and they tased her. Having witnessed many such encounters, I have no doubt she said "I'm in control of my life" and PD conveniently took that to mean she was suicidal.

Definite gray area on if PD had a right to be there (depends on how the call went out, EMS requests ect. ect.) and if/how/when she told them to leave, to decide what sort of trouble those officers are in.

This situation runs the gambit from they did everything right to they did everything wrong. Chances are we'll never know, but since they were inside a private residence, the full burden of proof falls squarely on those entering it.

 

[theweakerbrother]

If I live that long, I can look forward to being tazed. Don't worry, it is for your safety!

Do you think Walt Kowalski would stand for that garbage?

 

[hornadylnl]

So you are told someone has taken an over dose of pills. No one knows anything, and that is the problem. The longer they wait, the more likely she dies, the more money the city pays out in the lawsuit. Dozing off, in this situation, could really be dying. So yea, I guess they could have waited for her to die, then they could have disarmed her safely then. We would still have the same outrage from the Monday morning quarterbacks though: Cops kill granny.

Your sarcasm detector is clearly broken. You'll have to forgive me. Purple text is a pain on the iPhone.

 

[public servant]

Your sarcasm detector is clearly broken. You'll have to forgive me. Purple text is a pain on the iPhone.