Pointing “guns” at other people is not always inherently wrong… even outside of

[echoagain]

I visited a cemetery south of Monrovia some time ago which had an old artillery piece on display near the flag pole. I looked down the barrel without attempting to disassemble the weapon.....pretty sure that was some sort of safety violation.

 

[Roll Tide]

^^^ bang.


So, where does the argument about the video game graphics come in to play? I know it has been brought up just about every time there is a mass shooting somewhere, that kids are learning this stuff from video games. I have played those games, yet I've never shot anyone. While I can see how you can get the basics of pointing a gun, you cant learn the little intricacies of calculating drop and wind.

Do you guys think this is desensitizing the youth, and aiding poor education?

Just a thought, sorry if its a thread jack.

 

[Simple Ed]

Laser tag, rubber-band guns, and don't get me started on what a ping-pong ball can do to a guy.

Sticks make great swords too. There's gotta be at least three rules for those.

Our history, culture and testosterone drive us to emulate combat. How tame do we want to be?

 

[tomaustin]

proceed at your own risk...........

[h=3]Pointing a Firearm at Another Person – Penalties under Indiana Law[/h] If you point a gun at someone you could be charged with this Class D felony punishable by 6 months to 3 years in prison. If the weapon was unloaded, the charge is reduced to a Class A misdemeanor and carries a potential sentence of up to 1 year in jail and $5,000 in fines.

 

[spaniel]

Even my four-year-old understands the difference between a squirt gun and a real gun and treats them very, very differently.

I would hope the stupidity of anything resembling a "zero tolerance policy" and disconnection they represent from common sense would be self-evident.

 

[bwframe]

We wouldn't have these problems if Darwin was just a little more accurate...

 

[The Bubba Effect]

^^^ bang.


So, where does the argument about the video game graphics come in to play? I know it has been brought up just about every time there is a mass shooting somewhere, that kids are learning this stuff from video games. I have played those games, yet I've never shot anyone. While I can see how you can get the basics of pointing a gun, you cant learn the little intricacies of calculating drop and wind.

Do you guys think this is desensitizing the youth, and aiding poor education?

Just a thought, sorry if its a thread jack.

I am an avid video game player. I have played violent video games for about as long as there has been violent video games. I play violent first person shooters and am not a violent person.

That said, I found Dave Grossman's "On Killing" to contain a very reasonable take on the video game/desensitization/violence topic. I recommend the book. The short version of his argument, if I understand it, is that only a very small segment of the population will be effected so much by violent games that they become violent. As a gamer, it ruffled my feathers at first, but I cannot argue with his logic.

The video game topic is only a part of the book. Much of it is an examination of what it takes to condition soldiers/law enforcement officers to be able to kill and the consequences.

 

[Bill B]

I'm a known blasphemer… irreverently questioning dogma, rolling my eyes at cliches and busting myths for well over a decade.

We would get along very well.

 

[Bill B]

I'm saddened, I can no longer load my muzzleloader for fear of mistaking it for an airsoft water pistol that shoots blue darts....or something.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Look INGO force on force: ABC News Story Hides Guns in Candy in Classroom to Push Gun Control

 

[Kirk Freeman]

How does that answer either of my questions?

By telling you yet again that I wouldn't let kids do force on force. I don't think it is cool for kids to point real guns, cap guns, bb guns, airsoft guns, cheese bitten into gun shape at each other. I do not think it is appropriate for that age, but it should be up to the parents.

 

[jbombelli]

By telling you yet again that I wouldn't let kids do force on force. I don't think it is cool for kids to point real guns, cap guns, bb guns, airsoft guns, cheese bitten into gun shape at each other. I do not think it is appropriate for that age, but it should be up to the parents.

Let me spell this out in terms you're sure to understand...

I'm not asking you what you would allow children to do or not do. Nowhere in my questions did you see any mention of kids. You make blanket all-encompassing statements on gun safety, leading me to ask yet again... Do you feel that force on force training is too inherently risky to do?

 

[hornadylnl]

By telling you yet again that I wouldn't let kids do force on force. I don't think it is cool for kids to point real guns, cap guns, bb guns, airsoft guns, cheese bitten into gun shape at each other. I do not think it is appropriate for that age, but it should be up to the parents.

C'mon Kirk, you can't go making exceptions to pointing without hurting your gun expert street cred. That's what all this coonfingering, pointing talk is about.

A gun in a glass case can blow my jimmy off. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Nowhere in my questions did you see any mention of kids

The thread is about kids. If you want to make your own thread that is fine, but the OP is about teaching children.

C'mon Kirk, you can't go making exceptions to pointing without hurting your gun expert street cred

If you think I am an expert, you are mistaken. If you are being sarcastic, then . . . love it!

I still wouldn't have children taught that it is ever OK to points guns or gun like objects or a graham cracker bitten into a gun shape at others. I don't think making shades of gray arguments for kids helps the kids or the larger gun culture. This is my opinion and like that other thing it may stink but I feel I have solid evidence for having said opinion.

We have compelling evidence about what happens when people confuse guns and gun like objects. I feel this supports my blanket prohibition for kids.

[A gun in a glass case can blow my jimmy off./QUOTE]

It can, if it is being handled.

We certainly have plenty of evidence of "unloaded" guns in gun stores or gun shows being discovered to be loaded. Heck, a member of INGO who runs a pharmacy and gun stores has a jar of rounds that have come from unloaded guns. We have plenty of news reports where people have been shot in the genitals by people who were too cool for the Four Rules and shot themselves or others.

 

[hornadylnl]

The thread is about kids. If you want to make your own thread that is fine, but the OP is about teaching children.



If you think I am an expert, you are mistaken. If you are being sarcastic, then . . . love it!

I still wouldn't have children taught that it is ever OK to points guns or gun like objects or a graham cracker bitten into a gun shape at others. I don't think making shades of gray arguments for kids helps the kids or the larger gun culture. This is my opinion and like that other thing it may stink but I feel I have solid evidence for having said opinion.

We have compelling evidence about what happens when people confuse guns and gun like objects. I feel this supports my blanket prohibition for kids.

[A gun in a glass case can blow my jimmy off./QUOTE]

It can, if it is being handled.

We certainly have plenty of evidence of "unloaded" guns in gun stores or gun shows being discovered to be loaded. Heck, a member of INGO who runs a pharmacy and gun stores has a jar of rounds that have come from unloaded guns. We have plenty of news reports where people have been shot in the genitals by people who were too cool for the Four Rules and shot themselves or others.

You're entire anti pointing crusade has only been directed towards children? Lol. You don't remember the lengthy debate on proper gun orientation in gun shops? Whether rifles and shotguns in racks should be pointed up or down and how what floor the gun shop was on affected proper orientation?

This anti pointing crusade is an impossible task that cannot be achieved but the doesn't stop the hipocrits from posting it. They know full well they do it but they've got to maintain that Internet expert cred.

Think of all those LEOs driving around with ARs laying flat in their trunks. They're a pothole away from a drive by shooting.

It's no wonder non gun owners are deathly afraid when they see a gun. Their owners are.

 

[SteveM4A1]

I think Kirk brings up a great point in regards to children. First person shooters, plastic guns, FoF training, etc., all desensitize individuals to real violence. This can be a huge problem for children who don't have the ability to reason like an adult, who as shown by Kirk, can make mistakes as well. I have no problem with professionals doing FoF training, but I will stick to the cardinal rules of firearms safety. Are there exceptions to pointing a firearm at an individual? Of course. However, it is not a practice I want to become familiar with.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

You're entire anti pointing crusade has only been directed towards children?

This thread is about children. Surely you read the OP.

You don't remember the lengthy debate on proper gun orientation in gun shops?

Gun shops? I have no idea what you are talking about, horn. Not tracking.

Handling guns in gun shops? You mean the coonfingering in parking lots outside gun shows and gun shops?

What does this have to do with kids and letting kids point guns, or gun-like objects, at people?

 

[hornadylnl]

Gun shops? I have no idea what you are talking about, horn. Not tracking.

Handling guns in gun shops? You mean the coonfingering in parking lots outside gun shows and gun shops?

What does this have to do with kids and letting kids point guns, or gun-like objects, at people?

In all of your 4 rules rantings, you never allow caveats but in this thread, it's about the children.

People were actually arguing about how guns were displayed in wall racks and display cases. They were worried about their Jimmy's getting blown off by handguns pointing at them. They were worried about rifles pointing up in wall racks because bullets that go up must come down. They thought they should be pointed to the ground. Then the discussion was brought up about gun shops on the first floor with businesses upstairs. I'm not gigging for the thread.

Please Kirk, the 4 rules expert. Tell me how to properly inspect the rifling on an m1 garand at a gun show without pointing the muzzle at my eye.

 

[Bunnykid68]

How are we defining children here? There is no mention in the OP about the sons age. The attached link does mention a 15 year at one point.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

In all of your 4 rules rantings, you never allow caveats but in this thread, it's about the children.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Jeff Cooper plainly states the caveats to Rule 1.

I have a problem, and this is just me and my stinky opinion, with teaching the caveats to children. I think it is unhelpful to them.

And I would not let kids do force on force but I understand this is a call that the parent must make.

People were actually arguing about how guns were displayed in wall racks and display cases.

Really? Well, if it was how they were handled, being swept or such, then maybe an issue, but the Four Rules applies to handling not display.

Tell me how to properly inspect the rifling on an m1 garand at a gun show without pointing the muzzle at my eye.

No expert, but I would ensure that it is empty, by sight and feel, lock it open and look down the barrel. A bore light might be useful to you.