Officers just disarmed me in Subway, lectured and took my DL.

[Expat]

Budget cuts. Cartridges are expensive.

Can't they cut the fire department or something? We could end up with anarchy on the streets.

 

[public servant]

Can't they cut the fire department or something? We could end up with anarchy on the streets.

It's cheaper just to drive stun them in the testicles.

 

[mbills2223]

Maybe I'm just not getting it.
The LEOs were doing their job. Am I correct? Can or should they be absolutely perfect? In a perfect world sure.
Every situation will be handled differently due to circumstances and the immediate environment.
I OC and expect to be asked for my LTCH. I follow the laws and expect the same of LEOs.
I'm NOT going to jump on the podium and excercise every right I have or even know of. I pick and choose my confrontational battles hopefully wisely.
I see any LEO asking for my LTCH in public as an opportunity to reassure the LEO and the public of a law abiding citizen carrying a weapon.
I'm not a trouble maker or even look like one but I have been asked IF I had my LTCH. Of course I always do.
I treat all LEOs with respect as I do all people deserving of it.
When I do have an interaction with LEO I present myself in a professional manner, use the proper manners my momma tried to instill in me growing up, and keep the situation friendly and calm. I do my part to be a good citizen even when not in a situation involving a firearm.
I OC mostly. In the cold I usually CC only because my old arse gets chilled easy and I keep enough clothes on to keep some body heat in. They usually cover my handgun.
Now I want a Subway Club. 12" loaded out.

Is it their job to disarm the populace? If so, then yes.

 

[TheReaper]

For the Record: IANAL But I do speak from extensive experience..


They could not cite him for Driving While Suspended they could not tow his car for it either.

At the time of interaction He was not driving said vehicle. Even after being asked they still couldnt anyway since they cannot "prove beyond a reasonable doubt" that he did.

Even if he told the cop "I did" that does not meet the burden of proof. I can tell a cop I am a Jelly Donut when asked for ID but that does not make me a Jelly Donut.

There is so much fail in this that it's terrible. First off, THEY COULD HAVE AND STILL COULD CHARGE HIM IF THEY WANT! If he is suspended infraction, they can charge him with the admission. If he was suspended infraction, the burden of proof is not beyond a reasonable doubt, it's prepondurance of the evicence, or that he "more than likely" commited the offense since it's a civil offense. Even if he was suspended misdemeanor they can still charge him. You need to know what your talking about before you give legal advise on an open forum and get someone in trouble that believes you.

 

[TheReaper]

Couldn't agree more, which is why I'm in favor of TRUE CC, Constitutional Carry.

The problem is that he was accosted by police for exercising a right which was endowed to us by our Creator. Stopping every person OC'ing to see if they have an LTCH (which shouldn't even be required, but that's another discussion for another day) is akin to stopping every driver on a public road to see if they have a license to operate the vehicle.

Wrong, you need a license to carry in the state of Indiana whether you agree with it or not. If you are OC'ing or CC'ing and an officer see's it, he can ask for your LTCH and you must prove that you have a license to carry or be subject to incarceration. Not the same as driving a vehicle.....good grief how many times does this have to be said on this forum?

 

[CathyInBlue]

Quoted for truth. Why would you not keep your LTCH in your wallet right behind your DL?

There is so much fail in this that it's terrible. First off, THEY COULD HAVE AND STILL COULD CHARGE HIM IF THEY WANT! If he is suspended infraction, they can charge him with the admission. If he was suspended infraction, the burden of proof is not beyond a reasonable doubt, it's prepondurance of the evicence, or that he "more than likely" commited the offense since it's a civil offense. Even if he was suspended misdemeanor they can still charge him. You need to know what your talking about before you give legal advise on an open forum and get someone in trouble that believes you.

The only link between the preponderance of the evidence and the charge of driving on a suspended license is the OP's ADMISSION. So, yes, they could have charged him and towed his car, but not because they suspected him of having driven there. It would be because he admitted to it.

DON'T TALK TO THE COPS! KEEP YOUR POPCORN HOLES CLOSED. Other than to ask "Am I being detained?" "Am I free to go?" and "I want my lawyer."

 

[LtScott14]

My former LEO partner and I met for a Subway(meatball special) yesterday. Me with a Kimber 1911A on my hip, he has a G27 on his. A local Deputy Sheriff walked in behind us, ordered, and we sat inside for a while. Never asked about the handguns, only talked about deer hunting, finished lunch, and left. Neither of us knew him, or us, and that was it. Now, we don't wear tactical pants, FOP jackets, or shirts that say" Have you hugged your cop today?" Jeans, sneakers, flannels, ball caps. No threat perceived, nor given. I guess retired has it's benefits!

 

[the1kidd03]

No need to carry your LTCH on you, though it certainly is convenient if stopped.
Indiana Code 35-47-2

No need to present your driver's license for anything other than a traffic stop, either. Name, address, and birth date should suffice.
Indiana Code 34-28-5 (34-28-5-3 and 3.5)
and Indiana Code 9-24-13

I can understand why some folks would prefer the path of least resistance, rather than the legal path. Doesn't make it right, though.

There are times when I do not have my wallet on me, and therefor do not have ID or my LTCH. As long as I am not driving, I don't see the problem.

Wrong, you need a license to carry in the state of Indiana whether you agree with it or not. If you are OC'ing or CC'ing and an officer see's it, he can ask for your LTCH and you must prove that you have a license to carry or be subject to incarceration. Not the same as driving a vehicle.....good grief how many times does this have to be said on this forum?

Apparently a few more....

 

[OWGEM]

If GPIA7R looks anything like his avatar, and I was a cop and saw him OC'ing, I'd disarm him if he could not produce a LTCH!

 

[Pyriel]

I don't think that it would be a good idea to follow some of the advice given by some here. Calling and complaining on the officers that DIDN"T cite you for DWS probably isn't the best idea, the statute of imitations hasn't run out.

Couldn't site him because they didn't see it

 

[rmcrob]

The law doesn't force me to carry it, as said earlier. It's another one of those "Well do it anyway to prove you aren't bad" sorts of situations. If they're going to detain me, they can look it up themselves. I wasn't breaking any laws as far as carrying my firearm went.

I think it's your attitude that bothers me. That's probably what bothers the police as well. I don't know you, but what I detect is kind of a wiseguy attitude that one day will get you shot by the police. Then it won't matter whether you were right or wrong, because you'll be dead anyway. My advice, which you will not accept, is to try being a little bit of a better citizen and don't give the police any reason to look at you cross-eyed.

I like being unnoticed, myself.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

I think it's your attitude that bothers me. That's probably what bothers the police as well. I don't know you, but what I detect is kind of a wiseguy attitude that one day will get you shot by the police. Then it won't matter whether you were right or wrong, because you'll be dead anyway. My advice, which you will not accept, is to try being a little bit of a better citizen and don't give the police any reason to look at you cross-eyed.

Not sure what implied that I give cops an attitude. I've had some positive encounters with officers in the past, and I'm always kind and courteous, and probably more compliant than I should be.

I walked in smiling, and when the 1st officer nodded at me, I smiled and nodded back, and got in line. Apparently he was nodding "TO" me, so his partner would look over. I was legally OC'ing, and they chose to begin the process of seizing my gun (yes, without asking. He just said "Raise your hands" and took it out)

 

[the1kidd03]

I think it's your attitude that bothers me. That's probably what bothers the police as well. I don't know you, but what I detect is kind of a wiseguy attitude that one day will get you shot by the police. Then it won't matter whether you were right or wrong, because you'll be dead anyway. My advice, which you will not accept, is to try being a little bit of a better citizen and don't give the police any reason to look at you cross-eyed.

I like being unnoticed, myself.

To point out here, the OP hardly said a word to the LEOs while I was there. He tried his best to remain silent other than to answer their questions just enough to get them off his back. He sure didn't present any attitude towards them in any manner.

 

[the1kidd03]

Not sure what implied that I give cops an attitude. I've had some positive encounters with officers in the past, and I'm always kind and courteous, and probably more compliant than I should be.

I walked in smiling, and when the 1st officer nodded at me, I smiled and nodded back, and got in line. Apparently he was nodding "TO" me, so his partner would look over. I was legally OC'ing, and they chose to begin the process of seizing my gun (yes, without asking. He just said "Raise your hands" and took it out)

In that case, I'd make the call. Unfortunately you probably didn't get their names. I know I thought about it, but didn't myself.

 

[rmcrob]

This may be difficult for you, but try to put yourself in the place of the officers. You made their job more difficult by not having your license with you. No one likes to have additional work to do.

To this group you have made multiple excuses for not carrying your license with you. I don't accept your excuses. It isn't difficult to make sure you have appropriate ID with you at all times.

Cops are not perfect and they don't always know every nuance of every law they are charged with enforcing. Why not just fly under the radar instead of asking for scrutiny? Eventually you will make a misstep.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

To this group you have made multiple excuses for not carrying your license with you. I don't accept your excuses...

The "lol it's too big" was more of a joke than anything. I carry it nearly every day, but I happened to not have it this day. I don't go out of my way to carry it. If I see it on the dresser before I leave, I'll grab it.

Cops are not perfect and they don't always know every nuance of every law they are charged with enforcing. Why not just fly under the radar instead of asking for scrutiny? Eventually you will make a misstep.

I expect more from cops. I shouldn't have to be the one that pays for their lack of knowledge on the laws they are there to enforce.

Why not continue having their lunch, let me order mine, and we all be on our way? Why go out of their way to "check" on the young cleanly-dressed guy OC'ing, and not causing a problem? Wasn't wearing a mask, wasn't making sudden movements, wasn't shifty eyed.

 

[mbills2223]

Wrong, you need a license to carry in the state of Indiana whether you agree with it or not. If you are OC'ing or CC'ing and an officer see's it, he can ask for your LTCH and you must prove that you have a license to carry or be subject to incarceration. Not the same as driving a vehicle.....good grief how many times does this have to be said on this forum?

Thanks for resolving that for me.

Now if you'll read my statement again, you'll see that I never claimed that an officer CAN'T ask for an LTCH, but Indiana Code states that we don't need to carry it, which would lead me to believe that we aren't required to present it. Sure, they can ask for a name and call in and check. All I was saying is that it's a sad state of things when we have officers assuming every person with a gun is breaking the law, especailly when, in the opinion of many, the 2nd Amendment is enough to allow us to carry a firearm.

 

[TheReaper]

Couldn't site him because they didn't see it

An officer in Indiana DOESN'T have to witness an infraction to act on it.

 

[mbills2223]

The "lol it's too big" was more of a joke than anything. I carry it nearly every day, but I happened to not have it this day. I don't go out of my way to carry it. If I see it on the dresser before I leave, I'll grab it.



I expect more from cops. I shouldn't have to be the one that pays for their lack of knowledge on the laws they are there to enforce.

Exactly. When we go to a restaurant, we expect them to know every facet of their menu. Why shouldn't cops be expected to know the law? It's their job...

This may be difficult for you, but try to put yourself in the place of the officers. You made their job more difficult by not having your license with you. No one likes to have additional work to do.

To this group you have made multiple excuses for not carrying your license with you. I don't accept your excuses. It isn't difficult to make sure you have appropriate ID with you at all times.

Cops are not perfect and they don't always know every nuance of every law they are charged with enforcing. Why not just fly under the radar instead of asking for scrutiny? Eventually you will make a misstep.

They made their own job difficult when they chose to disarm him with no reason to believe he was acting illegally. I don't know about you, but if I were carrying a gun illegally, I don't think I would be OC'ing.

 

[TheReaper]

Thanks for resolving that for me.

Now if you'll read my statement again, you'll see that I never claimed that an officer CAN'T ask for an LTCH, but Indiana Code states that we don't need to carry it, which would lead me to believe that we aren't required to present it. Sure, they can ask for a name and call in and check. All I was saying is that it's a sad state of things when we have officers assuming every person with a gun is breaking the law, especailly when, in the opinion of many, the 2nd Amendment is enough to allow us to carry a firearm.

I agree with your statement, but unfortunately the way it's set up, you are presumed to HAVE committed a crime until you produce your LTCH. Until it's changed, that what Hoosiers will deal with.