Officers just disarmed me in Subway, lectured and took my DL.

[japartridge]

Another reason to give me not to open carry

 

[ArcadiaGP]

no law broken, then STFU and leave the citizen alone.

And that's what caught me off guard by the whole thing. Less than 30 seconds after engaging me, my firearm was removed from my holster and I was being questioned. I've OC'd for years and I never expect that to happen.

 

[the1kidd03]

And that's what caught me off guard by the whole thing. Less than 30 seconds after engaging me, my firearm was removed from my holster and I was being questioned. I've OC'd for years and I never expect that to happen.

At least they spoke to you before/as they did it. One of my encounters, they didn't make themselves known in any fashion before placing a hand on my gun. Luck was with me that day in the form of a friend.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Lessons to be learned here:

Don't worry about the Subway on 86th at Traders Point. It's safe. The officers will "handle the safety" without our help.

To make things easier on me and avoid unneeded actions, I will be ordering a new LTCH and making copies.

I've already resolved the DL issue... so should be good there.

At least they spoke to you before/as they did it. One of my encounters, they didn't make themselves known in any fashion before placing a hand on my gun. Luck was with me that day in the form of a friend.

Ouch, that'd be rough. Not sure what makes a person, even an officer, think they can just grab your firearm and you just assume it's not a bad guy/bad situation.

 

[Indy60]

Is it against the law to carry a handgun in Indiana open or concealed WITHOUT a LTCH? Yes, it is, so if an officer see's you carrying a firearm, you are committing a crime without a LTCH. SO, does he have the legal right to walk over to you, ask for your LTCH and prove that you are NOT in violation of the state criminal code? Yes, he can. It's as simple as that, carrying a handgun in Indiana is a criminal offense UNLESS you have a LTCH and show it.

Some people are totally ignorant of the need for a license. I was in the Fisher's Walmart about a month ago buying ammunition and started talking to a couple of guys doing the same thing. Some how the conversation went into the LTCH area and one of the guys buying the 9mm hollow points said "you mean you have to have a license to carry one of these?" Referring to the Glock he had strapped to his waist under his coat. The store employee ringing us up chimed in and said yes you do have to have a LTCH and you have to pass criminal background check. Needless to say these two guys quickly toned down their actions and asked quietly how clean and how far back does your record have to be. I am thinking if either one of these two guys were run by the police for a history, both would have left in handcuffs and would have been off the streets for a while. When people like this are walking around with a weapon, that is why police do inquire when they see a gun. But, this type of inquiry gets into profiling and probable cause and takes us down that slippery slope. No good answer here.

 

[japartridge]

IC 35-47-2-1 and -2-2 give a myriad of exceptions to the requirement to be licensed. Couple of the big ones, being one of your brothers in blue, being on property you have an ownership interest in, being on the property of someone who has given you verbal permission to carry. But you're right. I don't expect police to know every nuance of the laws they try to enforce. I just expect them to take their medicine when they enforce non-law as law.

How many times do we have to explain this on this forum?

 

[Indy60]

How many times do we have to explain this on this forum?

Actually, I found the post informative and this is the first time I have seen it posted here.

 

[sgtonory]

I'm not trying to stir the pot, and may be a little slow today, but what law/rule did the ISP troopers violate???

Just wondering why the call to the supervisor?

There is no reason to take his weapon. 4th Amendment. If he was not suspected of a crime there is no reason to talk to him. And saying i dont know if he has a license or not is not a reason. Just like they cant stop everyone on the road and see if you have a Drivers license. And this issue with even getting a license to do anything is complete bull. Who dose the government get the power? From the people. So why do we have to ask permission to do something that is our right?

 

[Shootsforfun]

No he was suspected of a crime....Carrying a gun without a LTCH is a felony....Do you think that they should have just taken his word that he did in fact have an LTCH...(since he could not prove it instantly by presenting it.. That would not be the way to do this either...IMO he should have just had his LTCH and presented it when asked and been on his way.....law or not...

 

[mbills2223]

No he was suspected of a crime....Carrying a gun without a LTCH is a felony....Do you think that they should have just taken his word that he did in fact have an LTCH...(since he could not prove it instantly by presenting it.. That would not be the way to do this either...IMO he should have just had his LTCH and presented it when asked and been on his way.....law or not...

So, by your logic, we must simply walk around actively proving that we are not/have not committing/committed any crime. I guess the next time I'm driving down the road I should stop and show a police officer my driver's license. Or perhaps the next time I leave my house, I had better take my birth certificate, so as to prove that I am not an illegal immigrant.

 

[eldirector]

No he was suspected of a crime....Carrying a gun without a LTCH is a felony....

Misdemeanor, unless within 1000' of a school. Tons of exceptions, too.

But yeah, it is generally illegal w/o paying for a license.

 

[the1kidd03]

No he was suspected of a crime....Carrying a gun without a LTCH is a felony....Do you think that they should have just taken his word that he did in fact have an LTCH...(since he could not prove it instantly by presenting it.. That would not be the way to do this either...IMO he should have just had his LTCH and presented it when asked and been on his way.....law or not...

The point is they have no justification FOR suspecting him. Yet it is a crime to carry without one, but they can check that he has been issued one with a simple call. They don't need to take his word for it. He's not guilty of anything no matter what they suspect. It's their duty to investigate; ie make that call. Once that is confirmed, they can leave and have no further reason to detain, harrass, disarm, etc.

Indeed he should carry it to not provide officers additional reason to give him a hard time, but he is not legally obligated to do so. That in itself is not a crime either.

People seem to forget the principle of "INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty" which is supposed to be the basis of our legal system. It's NOT "GUILTY until PROVEN innocent."

 

[actaeon277]

So I was discussing this with my boss. Apparently she went to that Subway yesterday as well, after the incident.

She said she saw a cop car driving slowly at the back of the lot looking at the Subway. Probably waiting to see if I would try to drive out of there. So, yeah, they stuck around.

I guess the 2nd officer wasn't lying when he said they had nothing better to do.

So why not have an INGO Open Carry Meet and Greet there.
What town is this in?

 

[the1kidd03]

So why not have an INGO Open Carry Meet and Greet there.
What town is this in?

No real reason to. It wasn't a call out by the business owner. The officers just happened to be there. It is a location right by the interstate. They probably don't even come by it often. Not many ISP troopers within 465 very often. Only around construction areas for the most part ON the interstate.

 

[iChokePeople]

Since I wasn't there, what do the two of you who WERE there think was the net result of this encounter? Did the police learn something that moved the 2a/OC cause forward? How about all of the other patrons, other than kidd? Did they leave with a more positive attitude toward our cause, or less positive?

I know, some of you will say, "**** them, I do what i want, it's my RIGHT", I'm not talking to you.

 

[CathyInBlue]

People seem to forget the principle of "INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty" which is supposed to be the basis of our legal system. It's NOT "GUILTY until PROVEN innocent."

Which is why IC 35-47-2-24 needs to be repealed or else neutered by the courts.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Since I wasn't there, what do the two of you who WERE there think was the net result of this encounter? Did the police learn something that moved the 2a/OC cause forward? How about all of the other patrons, other than kidd? Did they leave with a more positive attitude toward our cause, or less positive?

I know, some of you will say, "**** them, I do what i want, it's my RIGHT", I'm not talking to you.

I wasn't there after I walked out, obviously... but I'd say the spectacle the officers put on was over-the-top. I'd imagine the customers (like the one kidd mentioned) thought the cops had "caught" someone doing something bad.

Without the cops standing up and explaining to all of them, the customers probably assumed that since I was "carrying like a cop", I was in the wrong.

I'd say it didn't help one bit. Partially my fault for being unprepared, and partially the officer's fault for the power-trip actions and embarassing disarming/detainment.

 

[iChokePeople]

I wasn't there after I walked out, obviously... but I'd say the spectacle the officers put on was over-the-top. I'd imagine the customers (like the one kidd mentioned) thought the cops had "caught" someone doing something bad.

Without the cops standing up and explaining to all of them, the customers probably assumed that since I was "carrying like a cop", I was in the wrong.

I'd say it didn't help one bit. Partially my fault for being unprepared, and partially the officer's fault for the power-trip actions and embarassing disarming/detainment.

My only point is that IF we choose to play that role, we should do what we can to win the battle before it's fought, as Sun Tzu and others advise. I'm all for people (other than me) fighting that fight, but prepare and do what you can to WIN and advance our cause and make it just a little EASIER for the next guy.

 

[the1kidd03]

Since I wasn't there, what do the two of you who WERE there think was the net result of this encounter? Did the police learn something that moved the 2a/OC cause forward? How about all of the other patrons, other than kidd? Did they leave with a more positive attitude toward our cause, or less positive?

I know, some of you will say, "**** them, I do what i want, it's my RIGHT", I'm not talking to you.

In that sense, it was a major FAIL, IMO.

A lady walked up to the officers and said "I'm glad you guys were here, thank you" immediately after the OP walked outside.

Everyone seemed to be very aware of what was going on because it was in the middle of the place and hard to miss. The atmosphere and people's faces seemed to indicate that merely because the officers were questioning him, they assumed him to be a criminal.

I approached one of the officers with the intent to educate and began the conversation with asking about the situation, but it was very apparent that they weren't interested in communicating with the likes of a "lowly little citizen." So after he gave me his reasons for the encounter I let it drop and continued onto my vehicle.

Having experienced that nature of LEO before, I felt it best to let them think they were right rather than to further irritate their ignorance.

 

[sgtonory]

No he was suspected of a crime....Carrying a gun without a LTCH is a felony....Do you think that they should have just taken his word that he did in fact have an LTCH...(since he could not prove it instantly by presenting it.. That would not be the way to do this either...IMO he should have just had his LTCH and presented it when asked and been on his way.....law or not...

Missing the point. We all have unlimited rights as long as we don't infringe on another person rights. How was he infringing on anyone's rights? Leos are there to protect your rights. So unless there is a victim there is no crime. A Code or statue is not law. There is only common law. And a LTCH is a infringement on everyone's rights. So what the cops did was wrong the victim was the OP.