Officers just disarmed me in Subway, lectured and took my DL.

[Raskolnikov]

Yeah. I actually mentioned that, politely... and he said "Are you trying to tell "the law", the law?"

That makes me so angry to hear that. These officers aren't the law, they simply enforce. It is similar to get into a religious debate with a priest and have him tell you that he is God. That's blasphemy.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

That makes me so angry to hear that. These officers aren't the law, they simply enforce. It is similar to get into a religious debate with a priest and have him tell you that he is God. That's blasphemy.

Go to a more rural area of the state and see if you don't hear people referring to cops as "the law". As in "Ma, the Law is here looking for Johnny". I understand its not in common use in the big city, but when I was a boy I never heard the word 'police' or 'cop'. It was either the Sheriff or the Law.

I'm thinking your overstating the degree of 'blasphemy', like police who take offense at 'cop'. Seems like there's a lot more important things to get your tit in a ringer about, but each to their own.

 

[Miles42]

Let me get this straight if you are not required to have your license on you and you are caught carrying the officers are just suppose to take your word for it? Then why bother obtaining the license in the first place. As for the DL they only have the word of the DMV to go by. They advised the officers your DL has been suspended. Your firearm was returned to you after they verified your LTCH. I fail to see the problem.

 

[mbills2223]

Let me get this straight if you are not required to have your license on you and you are caught carrying the officers are just suppose to take your word for it? Then why bother obtaining the license in the first place. As for the DL they only have the word of the DMV to go by. They advised the officers your DL has been suspended. Your firearm was returned to you after they verified your LTCH. I fail to see the problem.

Couldn't agree more, which is why I'm in favor of TRUE CC, Constitutional Carry.

The problem is that he was accosted by police for exercising a right which was endowed to us by our Creator. Stopping every person OC'ing to see if they have an LTCH (which shouldn't even be required, but that's another discussion for another day) is akin to stopping every driver on a public road to see if they have a license to operate the vehicle.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Couldn't agree more, which is why I'm in favor of TRUE CC, Constitutional Carry.

The problem is that he was accosted by police for exercising a right which was endowed to us by our Creator. Stopping every person OC'ing to see if they have an LTCH (which shouldn't even be required, but that's another discussion for another day) is akin to stopping every driver on a public road to see if they have a license to operate the vehicle.

The 1st officer actually compared it to this. Paraphrasing, but "you are required to have the permit on your person, just like you are required to have a driver's license on you when driving."

 

[mbills2223]

The 1st officer actually compared it to this. Paraphrasing, but "you are required to have the permit on your person, just like you are required to have a driver's license on you when driving."

Permit...hahahaha.

Overall:

 

[Nmathew24]

I guess no one was speeding on 465 this afternoon so they would bother you.

 

[bloodandgutsmurphy]

Another reason to give me not to open carry

 

[Colinb913]

Another reason to give me not to open carry

Interesting, I see it as another reason to open carry. Need to educate the uneducated somehow.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Another reason to give me not to open carry

Not to derail this into a pedantic OC vs CC thread, but here's my point:

I carry a firearm to protect myself and those around me, simple as that. I open carry not only for comfort, but because I honestly and truly enjoy the positive conversations that it can create. Many of these turn into great educational conversations to those that are simply unaware.

Of all the "incidents" I've noted here on INGunowners, I can honestly say I've had more positive than negative.

It's worth the risk, to me, to have a positive encounter with a random person.

If there's no one out there to educate the sheep and the uneducated... who will? The media? No. It's those of us out there exercising our rights openly.

 

[Colinb913]

Any who, GPIA7R, I would be hauling ass down town to speak to a supervisor about what happened. That whole encounter was a load of bull****, from start to finish.

Just my $0.02

 

[KW730]

The1kidd03, did you happen to be OCing? Did the officers say anything to you?

 

[bwframe]

...If there's no one out there to educate the sheep and the uneducated... who will? The media? No. It's those of us out there exercising our rights openly.

You were disarmed and not allowed to drive away. Both due, in some part, to being your own fault. What kind of education does that give the sheep and uneducated? How is that helping our cause?

 

[SaintsNSinners]

For the Record: IANAL But I do speak from extensive experience..


They could not cite him for Driving While Suspended they could not tow his car for it either.

At the time of interaction He was not driving said vehicle. Even after being asked they still couldnt anyway since they cannot "prove beyond a reasonable doubt" that he did.

Even if he told the cop "I did" that does not meet the burden of proof. I can tell a cop I am a Jelly Donut when asked for ID but that does not make me a Jelly Donut.

 

[public servant]

They could not cite him for Driving While Suspended they could not tow his car for it either.

Unless Subway didn't want the vehicle left on their lot. Which was why I asked.

I wasn't clear at the time that someone else drove it away.

 

[Expat]

Have they taken away all the PoPo's tazers or something... we never get a good tazering in these stories any more...

 

[the1kidd03]

The1kidd03, did you happen to be OCing? Did the officers say anything to you?

Not at the moment actually. Typically, I OC everywhere I go. Today I had a jacket on an even OC turns to CC at that point. Plus, I was just grabbing a quick sandwich for lunch and headed straight back to the office with it so I wasn't there for very long. I did however let the LEO know that I carry too.

On my way out the door I did stop one of the officers to inquire as to what the circumstances were. He wasn't really conversational, but he simply stated that he "was OCing, which is going to attract all kinds of attention and then he didn't have his permit AND his DL was suspended."

I thought perhaps the LEO would be more friendly/civil to a random citizen asking a question but no, his power trip and slight attitude remained unchanged as if to say "who are you to ask me these questions."

I've seen MUCH worse from LEOs so I can't complain too much. Having that sort of attitude seems to go with the territory in this state. At least, more so than in other states/departments I've dealt with over the years. My wife, who's a Cali native, has noticed the same thing. That's not to say ALL LEO are that way, but the ones I've been around/known who aren't are far outnumbered here by the ones who are.

Again, the whole situation went about as well as you could have expected in a crowded place with two LEOs on a power trip.

 

[the1kidd03]

Also, I wasn't there for the start of it, but I would deny their request to take posession of my weapon. I learned the hard way that giving that up just means they can be bigger asses and sure enough WILL be usually. Not only is it safer leaving right where it's at in a public area, but you're not technically/legally obligated to hand it over. I simply prefer keeping the "atmosphere" balanced, their ego at a bearable level during the interaction, and the weapon in it's safe untouched and secured position. Their ignorance doesn't make you a criminal and neither does your choice to refuse to be a victim.

To point out, if they took posession of your firearm without requesting permission to touch your person, you might think about calling that number. I didn't see that portion of the fiasco.

 

[public servant]

Have they taken away all the PoPo's tazers or something... we never get a good tazering in these stories any more...

Budget cuts. Cartridges are expensive.

 

[halfmileharry]

The law doesn't force me to carry it, as said earlier. It's another one of those "Well do it anyway to prove you aren't bad" sorts of situations. If they're going to detain me, they can look it up themselves. I wasn't breaking any laws as far as carrying my firearm went.

similar to saying "Well, just CC anyway then you won't have problems."

Maybe I'm just not getting it.
The LEOs were doing their job. Am I correct? Can or should they be absolutely perfect? In a perfect world sure.
Every situation will be handled differently due to circumstances and the immediate environment.
I OC and expect to be asked for my LTCH. I follow the laws and expect the same of LEOs.
I'm NOT going to jump on the podium and excercise every right I have or even know of. I pick and choose my confrontational battles hopefully wisely.
I see any LEO asking for my LTCH in public as an opportunity to reassure the LEO and the public of a law abiding citizen carrying a weapon.
I'm not a trouble maker or even look like one but I have been asked IF I had my LTCH. Of course I always do.
I treat all LEOs with respect as I do all people deserving of it.
When I do have an interaction with LEO I present myself in a professional manner, use the proper manners my momma tried to instill in me growing up, and keep the situation friendly and calm. I do my part to be a good citizen even when not in a situation involving a firearm.
I OC mostly. In the cold I usually CC only because my old arse gets chilled easy and I keep enough clothes on to keep some body heat in. They usually cover my handgun.
Now I want a Subway Club. 12" loaded out.