NRA Supports Bump Stock Regulation

[jamil]

Their statement may actually be marketing in part. I know a few people, one of whom I work with, that are total liberals. They own a few guns and are now talking of joining or rejoining the NRA.

On the issue of gun control, this may be what separates real liberals from progressives. I think the bonafide liberals are really motivated by principle, whereas the progressives are motivated by ideology.

 

[jamil]

The bill doesn't say bump stocks, it say's parts or combination of parts to increase the rate of fire. That is match triggers, lightweight bolt carriers and heavy buffer springs.

It's just a hard thing to define in written words the distinctions distinctions between what you want to ban and what you don't.

 

[Alpo]

Well, the mass murderer used a bump-fire stock to assault an objective. Was it the most effective strategy? Well, that depends on what the objective was. If bump-fire stocks aren't available for the next nutball, if nothing else changes, all she'll need, to do the same thing is watch some YouTube videos and practice.

Hopefully, they won't be copycats and if they have mental problems, that they become aware that professional help is available.

For the sane among us, I suggest any of the hickock45 videos on automatic weapons where he demonstrates auto fire and makes the observation: Deliberate, aimed fire trumps full auto in magazine fed firearms most of the time.

 

[Brad69]

That's right it not about just bump stocks!
I would doubt match triggers or such would fit the profile.
But the crank triggers and stuff will.
Notice it's a ban from possessing them?

Yes I have fired full auto for fun fired an M16A1 till it was so hot it "cooked off" just insert magazine hit bolt release 30 rounds gone.
To the tune of about 500+ rounds we didn't want to turn in.
But that was with your ammo and weapon and $$$$$
Thanks for the fun!

Thinking back on that it was probably not safe I was not touching the trigger!

 

[Bhart89]

The bill doesn't say bump stocks, it say's parts or combination of parts to increase the rate of fire. That is match triggers, lightweight bolt carriers and heavy buffer springs.

standard and larger capacity magazines.

 

[WWalker]

BREAKING: Gunbroker BANS Sale of Slidefire & Bumpfire Stocks - The Firearm BlogThe Firearm Blog

 

[churchmouse]

I think the butt hurt is starting to surface.

 

[mcapo]

The bill is bad news. Period. We do not want Congress banning bump stocks.

The NRA is right in attempting to sidetrack legislative action by a review from the BATF.

Might be a hard pill for the "not one inch" crowd but the NRA is taking a realistic approach that protects our gun parts ownerships "rights".

 

[rock]

We were so close to get silencers signed off & ok'ed Now this Bull s#%t

 

[ScouT6a]

For those who might be interested. Gives a little insight into how our government has approached firearm regulations, in the past.
After World War 1, the U.S. decided to sell off surplus machine guns, since we had just concluded the "War to End All Wars"
Browning BARs could be had for the taking, along with the infamous Tommy Gun. The Thompson's, more so than others, because it had not made it into full production before the war would end.
So, the U.S. gets a bunch of full auto hardware dumped into public and police hands. Along comes Prohibition. Things turn volatile in America. People are getting shot and killed by machine guns, frequently.
The government steps in and says these things are too dangerous for John Q. Public to buy and they draft the National Firearms Act of 1934.
Now, along with machine guns, they thought revolvers and pistols were too easily concealed and just as much of a danger to public safety as the machine gun. Which would leave us with sporting rifles and shotguns.
In an effort to make sure someone wouldn't cut down a rifle or shotgun to make it easily concealed, like the banned pistols and revolvers, they came up with the Short Barreled Rifle and Short Barreled Shotgun clauses.
Alas, the pistol and revolver stipulation was removed, before the Act passed, but the SBR and SBS wording stayed.
So, Uncle Sugar was passing legislation 80+ years ago, without understanding the subject matter or what was contained in the bill. Amazing, huh?

 

[churchmouse]

For those who might be interested. Gives a little insight into how our government has approached firearm regulations, in the past.
After World War 1, the U.S. decided to sell off surplus machine guns, since we had just concluded the "War to End All Wars"
Browning BARs could be had for the taking, along with the infamous Tommy Gun. The Thompson's, more so than others, because it had not made it into full production before the war would end.
So, the U.S. gets a bunch of full auto hardware dumped into public and police hands. Along comes Prohibition. Things turn volatile in America. People are getting shot and killed by machine guns, frequently.
The government steps in and says these things are too dangerous for John Q. Public to buy and they draft the National Firearms Act of 1934.
Now, along with machine guns, they thought revolvers and pistols were too easily concealed and just as much of a danger to public safety as the machine gun. Which would leave us with sporting rifles and shotguns.
In an effort to make sure someone wouldn't cut down a rifle or shotgun to make it easily concealed, like the banned pistols and revolvers, they came up with the Short Barreled Rifle and Short Barreled Shotgun clauses.
Alas, the pistol and revolver stipulation was removed, before the Act passed, but the SBR and SBS wording stayed.
So, Uncle Sugar was passing legislation 80+ years ago, without understanding the subject matter or what was contained in the bill. Amazing, huh?

I am sure public perception had a lot to do with all of this.

 

[2A_Tom]

I haven't seen this posted. It gives a few more details about what happened, and as for opinions on the political aspect, it's my opinion exactly.

[video=youtube_share;Oi-Eiqd_G0Q]http://youtu.be/Oi-Eiqd_G0Q[/video]

A couple of well priced essential kits.

https://www.rescue-essentials.com/rescue-essentials-tactical-ankle-medical-kit/

https://www.rescue-essentials.com/patrol-officers-pocket-trauma-kit/

 

[JAL]

NRA is looking for BATF to look at bump fires.
Before this attack, I never heard of bump slide slocks.
Now, I have seen enough to question why BATF determined they were acceptable.

I had seen their installation and use on YouTube with the typical "Yeeeee Haaaaa Look at Me" click bait videos with all the spectators cheering and laughing in the background as the shooter shreds a human silhouette target. Just as you were, I was stupified about how they had gotten past BATF without at least being classified as a Class 3 "Any Other Weapon" device. Then I discovered that Slide Fire, their developer and main manufacturer, had touted them to BATF as enabling the disabled who are missing or cannot manipulate their fingers to fire AR-15 and AR-10 sporting rifles. This was deliberately deceptive as Slide Fire and Bump Fire Systems not only knew at the outset they would be used to effectively make a fully automatic rifle from a semi-auto, they had specifically intended them to be unofficially marketed for that purpose.

Machine guns have been regulated since 1934. It's completely understandable to me how the general public could be outraged that the Slide Fire and Bump Fire Systems devices circumvent the spirit of that law (as amended) on a technicality loophole the BATF allows them to use (external add-on vs. internal modification). It's akin to pubic outrage when notorious criminals have convictions overturned on legal technicalities. In their minds, the government has failed them. Allowing or encouraging BATF to revisit these devices serves two purposes:

1. Shuffles blame for allowing them to slide through onto the Obama administration as they were approved in 2010.
2. Prevents Congressional legislative meddling which could end up including all manner of other unintended and unwanted restrictions.

I've no doubt whatsoever that congressional legislation will get bogged down into all manner of contentious haggling over amendments to do everything save repeal the 2nd Amendment. Senators like Diane Feinstein see this as a means to get the camel's nose under the tent and push the entire camel in while it wends its way through Congress with compromise deals being made for votes to pass all manner of other legislation. They'll threaten gridlock on everything else in Congress unless they get their way. I believe this legislative uncertainty is what the NRA fears, whereas BATF reconsideration is much more controllable.

I've seen the specious "Will we also make [belt loops, dowels, rubber bands] illegal?" or "Will we make loose AK-47 pistol grips illegal?" arguments. If that were the case, 2x4 lumber and duct tape would have been made illegal long ago. I can take a 2x4 and with two or three saw cuts quickly fashion a makeshift shoulder stock for any of my pistols or revolvers, using the duct tape to attach it. Could do the same with heavy gauge steel wire. It's now a NFA Class 3 weapon. The 2x4 (or steel wire) is not inherently illegal. It's how the 2x4 has been used that is illegal. The same applies to makshift "silencers" quickly fabricated from automotive oil filters. The argument about having to make illegal the possession of any materials that might be used to create a makeshift Slide Fire device employing the same operating principle doesn't hold up. Likewise, it's a deliberately loosening or assembling firearm parts differently from original design to create an AOW or other NFA Class 3 firearm that constitutes an illegal act.

Face the reality:
"Bump stocks" and other devices that accomplish the same thing including gat cranks, binary triggers and JT Grip Solutions sliding grips are either becoming Class 3 AOW or are being banned entirely. It's going to happen. It's a matter of how that's done and by whom, the BATF or Congress. The hard line "Not.One.Inch" stance is untenable. It only serves to help the Diane Fieinstein's, Connecticut congressional delegations, and Brady Campaigns of the world promote the image of gun owners to John Q. Public, especially those who don't own any firearms, as dangerous fanatics who ought to be forcibly disarmed as a lethal lunatic menace to society by repealing the 2nd Amendment and banning gun ownership.

How did we get to this?
Slide Fire and Bump Fire Systems that "sold" the concept of these devices to BATF as a means of enabling the disabled use of certain types of rifles should take a long hard look in a mirror. Those that supported the devices as finally circumventing laws regarding machine guns and other automatic weapons because they're unconstitutional and always have been (in spite of SCOTUS decisions) ought to be working toward their repeal, not to using technical loopholes as an "end around". Such tactics only serve to create livid outrage within the general public in the aftermath of events like the one in Las Vegas when they discover how they became permitted devices by deliberate deception.

John

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So the Left commits a horrific crime and we all have to lose rights because of it?

That's not just.

 

[Kutnupe14]

So the Left commits a horrific crime and we all have to lose rights because of it?

That's not just.

The left? Are we still politicizing this tragedy, despite an absence of evidence?

 

[Expat]

So the Left commits a horrific crime and we all have to lose rights because of it?

That's not just.

 

[Alpo]

That's a good deal on a tourniquet.

 

[ScouT6a]

I had seen their installation and use on YouTube with the typical "Yeeeee Haaaaa Look at Me" click bait videos with all the spectators cheering and laughing in the background as the shooter shreds a human silhouette target. Just as you were, I was stupified about how they had gotten past BATF without at least being classified as a Class 3 "Any Other Weapon" device. Then I discovered that Slide Fire, their developer and main manufacturer, had touted them to BATF as enabling the disabled who are missing or cannot manipulate their fingers to fire AR-15 and AR-10 sporting rifles. This was deliberately deceptive as Slide Fire and Bump Fire Systems not only knew at the outset they would be used to effectively make a fully automatic rifle from a semi-auto, they had specifically intended them to be unofficially marketed for that purpose.

Machine guns have been regulated since 1934. It's completely understandable to me how the general public could be outraged that the Slide Fire and Bump Fire Systems devices circumvent the spirit of that law (as amended) on a technicality loophole the BATF allows them to use (external add-on vs. internal modification). It's akin to pubic outrage when notorious criminals have convictions overturned on legal technicalities. In their minds, the government has failed them. Allowing or encouraging BATF to revisit these devices serves two purposes:

1. Shuffles blame for allowing them to slide through onto the Obama administration as they were approved in 2010.
2. Prevents Congressional legislative meddling which could end up including all manner of other unintended and unwanted restrictions.

I've no doubt whatsoever that congressional legislation will get bogged down into all manner of contentious haggling over amendments to do everything save repeal the 2nd Amendment. Senators like Diane Feinstein see this as a means to get the camel's nose under the tent and push the entire camel in while it wends its way through Congress with compromise deals being made for votes to pass all manner of other legislation. They'll threaten gridlock on everything else in Congress unless they get their way. I believe this legislative uncertainty is what the NRA fears, whereas BATF reconsideration is much more controllable.

I've seen the specious "Will we also make [belt loops, dowels, rubber bands] illegal?" or "Will we make loose AK-47 pistol grips illegal?" arguments. If that were the case, 2x4 lumber and duct tape would have been made illegal long ago. I can take a 2x4 and with two or three saw cuts quickly fashion a makeshift shoulder stock for any of my pistols or revolvers, using the duct tape to attach it. Could do the same with heavy gauge steel wire. It's now a NFA Class 3 weapon. The 2x4 (or steel wire) is not inherently illegal. It's how the 2x4 has been used that is illegal. The same applies to makshift "silencers" quickly fabricated from automotive oil filters. The argument about having to make illegal the possession of any materials that might be used to create a makeshift Slide Fire device employing the same operating principle doesn't hold up. Likewise, it's a deliberately loosening or assembling firearm parts differently from original design to create an AOW or other NFA Class 3 firearm that constitutes an illegal act.

Face the reality:
"Bump stocks" and other devices that accomplish the same thing including gat cranks, binary triggers and JT Grip Solutions sliding grips are either becoming Class 3 AOW or are being banned entirely. It's going to happen. It's a matter of how that's done and by whom, the BATF or Congress. The hard line "Not.One.Inch" stance is untenable. It only serves to help the Diane Fieinstein's, Connecticut congressional delegations, and Brady Campaigns of the world promote the image of gun owners to John Q. Public, especially those who don't own any firearms, as dangerous fanatics who ought to be forcibly disarmed as a lethal lunatic menace to society by repealing the 2nd Amendment and banning gun ownership.

How did we get to this?
Slide Fire and Bump Fire Systems that "sold" the concept of these devices to BATF as a means of enabling the disabled use of certain types of rifles should take a long hard look in a mirror. Those that supported the devices as finally circumventing laws regarding machine guns and other automatic weapons because they're unconstitutional and always have been (in spite of SCOTUS decisions) ought to be working toward their repeal, not to using technical loopholes as an "end around". Such tactics only serve to create livid outrage within the general public in the aftermath of events like the one in Las Vegas when they discover how they became permitted devices by deliberate deception.

John

John,
You might want to get a copy of the actual BATF letter, in hand, and actually read it before going on your rant.
The letter states, "the stock is intended to assist persons, whose hands have limited mobility, to "bump fire" an AR15 type rifle"
The manufacturer did not decieve the BATF in any way, shape or form. The BATF knew exactly what they were approving.
That is all.

 

[indiucky]

The left? Are we still politicizing this tragedy, despite an absence of evidence?

Folks politicized a hurricane in Puerto Rico based on race....

They politicized a lost election by saying "Russia" over and over again...

They politicized football games by kneeling during the National Anthem.....

They politicized an assassination attempt on Republican congressmen by using the event to go after guns....

Hillary Clinton politicized the Vegas shooting with her first tweet of the day.....

They politicized history by tearing down statues of prominent Democrats throughout the South....

They politicized Columbus Day by calling him the architect of the genocide of native peoples....(Because they were so peaceful before Columbus...)

Everything is politicized Kut...

To quote Nappy Roots,

"It's the way of the world.....
That's why I pray for the world...."

 

[Kirk Freeman]

The left? Are we still politicizing this tragedy, despite an absence of evidence?

There no denying that he was antifa, a hat-wearing Trump hater. A member of the most socialist of unions. He purchased his guns AFTER the election. He fought in the streets, just as the Left foretold.

Violence comes from the Left. What's so shocking about that? It is a truism and was borne out in Las Vegas.