NRA Action Pistol?

[indycruzr]

I'm looking for a range in Indiana that still does NRA Action Pistol, I believe that is Bianchi Cup style. Does anyone now of any matches in Indiana or surrounding states?

Thanks in advance for your posts!

 

[rhino]

I'm looking for a range in Indiana that still does NRA Action Pistol, I believe that is Bianchi Cup style. Does anyone now of any matches in Indiana or surrounding states?

Thanks in advance for your posts!

Unfortunately, NRA AP is pretty much dead in Indiana. At one time, three clubs has monthly matches, and now that number is zero. Wildcat Valley was the last to cease their matches, and the shooting sports are diminished because of it.

Some suggest that if there were venues to shoot, people would do it. My experience is the opposite. Attendance at the matches at Wildcat for the last few years ranged between low and abysmal. Slow1911s and I have done our best to spread the word about how much fun it is to do and how it's a great training tool for other shooting endeavors, but people just aren't interested. Part of that may be competing matches in other disciplines, but that's just a fact of life.

NRA Action Pistol actually encompasses more events than just the four Bianchi Cup events. Wildcat used to do those four every month, but there are other events in the rule book that are less equipment intensive (i.e. they don't need plate racks or a moving target). If you're serious about NRA AP, you may be able to shoot some of those at your local club.

The demise of NRA is unfortunate, especially since the GSSF Glock matches so obviously owe their inspiration to NRA AP stages. You'd think that people who love GSSF matches would enjoy doing a very similar sport every month (or more often) rather than just once a year.

 

[slow1911s]

I've been putting some thought into at least having a state or regional level match (or both) some time before the 'Cup next year at Wildcat. I can't do it by myself and it needs to be on the books by January (for the club, at least. I'm not sure about NRA timing.).

We used to get a decent crowd a few years ago. I really miss it.

 

[sloughfoot]

It is a sad loss that there is no longer NRA Action Pistol in the State. We could certainly do it at FWRR, but there does not seem to be any interest.

Anybody interested in NE Indiana could let me know if they have a burning desire. I could make it happen if so desired......

 

[rhino]

I've been putting some thought into at least having a state or regional level match (or both) some time before the 'Cup next year at Wildcat. I can't do it by myself and it needs to be on the books by January (for the club, at least. I'm not sure about NRA timing.).

We used to get a decent crowd a few years ago. I really miss it.

Me too.

A lot of people talk about how great the people in their shooting sport are. I've never encountered a situation where the top shooters in a big match went to the prize table first and took things like beer can insulators, mugs, and keychains so that the less experienced and less skilled shooters could get a nice prize. That's what happened the last time we had an NRA Action Pistol Regional match at Wildcat Valley. That's true class.

I got a nice leatherman that way and I was one of the last to go to the table!

But aside from that, if you're interested in testing your shooting skills, NRA AP is the venue for that. If you want to improve your practical marksmanship for other games, NRA AP is great for that.

And it's fun. And frustrating. And you get to shoot 192 rounds each time!

 

[indycruzr]

Thanks for the input gentlemen. I guess unless something happens at WVRPC, then we are out of luck.

 

[rhino]

Thanks for the input gentlemen. I guess unless something happens at WVRPC, then we are out of luck.

Probably. Someone who is a member there will have to be champion for the cause, or it definitely will not happen.

 

[riverman67]

I don't even know what action pistol is , but I would be willing to attempt it .

 

[rhino]

I don't even know what action pistol is , but I would be willing to attempt it .

NRA Action Pistol is the sport that was created when John Bianchi and Ray Chapman created the Bianchi Cup. It was intended to test the shooting skills of the best shooters around (and it does). At some point, the sport was assumed by NRA. NRA has done little to promote and grow the sport and in the past had done much to end it.

The four Bianchi Cup events each require exactly 48 rounds, for a total of 192 when you shoot that match or NRA AP matches with the same events. They are the Barricade, Falling Plates, Moving Target, and Practical. All of them are fixed time and round count. There are also several other NRA AP events that stress similar skills, but are less commonly shot. That's odd because they are less facility intensive, but they are also not direct practice for the Cup.

On paper, they don't seem that exciting. Once you try it, though, you're hooked. It doesn't have the run'n'gun type of excitement of USPSA, but the marksmanship challenges are intense.

 

[451_Detonics]

Jim Reinholt was the driving force behind NRA Action Pistol in Indiana, his facility at Winamac was designed completely around the match. Indiana and Illinois State Championships were shot there as well as Regional Matches. The Spring Cup was held the week before the Bianchi Cup and many of the top competitors would spend the entire week there before the Bianchi Cup tuning up. The British shooters would often come over and spend a couple weeks. I ran matches there for years and competed there every month. Even won occasionally. I was the VP of the ISRPA for Action Pistol at one time as well.

Sadly a some years ago Jim's health became too bad to try and keep the range open and it is now closed.

I have talked with the guys at Eagle Creek and there is interest in Action Pistol there but no equipment.

 

[Coach]

Action Pistol

I have never shot it, and I have nothing against it. There are two main problems from where I sit.

1) The sport is equipment intensive and would require a considerable investment from a club. I have been to Wildcat once and the equipment is sitting there in the bays taking up space, and not being utilized. I am not too interested in putting the stuff into bays at Riley with no following of shooters. A pointman at Wildcat is needed.

2) A pointman is needed. Someone is needed to be the driving force and get it off the ground. I am willing to help and to come shoot the matches if they are intelligently scheduled. I am not going to skip USPSA to shoot it.

Can the matches be shot without the mover stage? The other stages can be done with equipment that is less permanent. But mover is going to be tougher. Does the NRA help with start up costs without making its normal dictatorial demands? If these questions could be answered with a yes Riley might be willing to help bring the sport back with a point man that is not me.

 

[slow1911s]

Can the matches be shot without the mover stage? The other stages can be done with equipment that is less permanent. But mover is going to be tougher. Does the NRA help with start up costs without making its normal dictatorial demands? If these questions could be answered with a yes Riley might be willing to help bring the sport back with a point man that is not me.

Yes, you can shoot an AP match without the mover. There are (I think) 16 approved COFs that can be used for registered matches.

The NRA AP program does not, to my knowledge, do anything with startup costs. The NRA has their range grant program, which can be used for funding, but it's not tied to the competition division (that I know of).

The equipment investment is not as bad as most people think. Moving target systems can be made for a few hundred dollars. Plate racks are a bit spendy to buy, but someone who can weld could save. The biggest problem with hosting the championship events is space. Most ranges don't have bays deep enough (you need one that is 50+, and three others at 35+).

Where the hell is Ahab in this discussion?

 

[rhino]

Where the hell is Ahab in this discussion?

He posted in a message recently that he was moving to another state to work for NRA.

 

[451_Detonics]

You can run Action Pistol without the mover but I think it would hurt attendance. People who shoot this sport want to shoot the four main matches with maybe one or two of the others as side events.

Also the barricades for the Barricade Event just about have to be permanent in order to be stable enough as they are used for support. I felt the ones at Wildcat were too springy. The plate event can be run with a single rack of plates but shooting one competitor at a time would take a long time to get everyone through. To be able to run an efficient match you need to be able to run several competitors at a time one each event...however most ranges have a single mover which is always a bottleneck.

I would be more than happy to help re-establish this sport in Indiana but I don't have a facility available.

 

[Mike Elzinga]

I would be glad to throw my hands in for help, but again, location is the issue. I suspect equipment might not be as difficult or expensive to come by as people thing. I dont want to discuss that further out in the open, but whoever is going to be the one in charge is welcome to call me.

There are a couple ways to make portable barricades firm enough to use as support. None of them work real well, but all are OK. The barricades at wildcat were springy, but the ones at Rienholts rocked pretty good too, we made do with all of them.

Shooting sports in IN are now such that we much sacrifice shooting certain matches in order to shoot others. If a person only wants to shoot USPSA and is willing to drive, they can shoot every weekend, sat and sun. Throw in Steel, IDPA, ICORE and MultiGun and its a full schedule. I have no idea what "intelligent" scheduling would consist of. Drawing a crowd will always be difficult, particularly as long as USPSA shooters arent up to shots longer than 15 yards

Rhino, Dave, let me know if i can help in any way.

 

[rhino]

You make an excellent point about the virtual explosion in the number of opportunities to shoot some kind of practical/action shooting match in Indiana. Even if you shoot only one discipline, sometimes you have to make a choice about which match you'll shoot on a given day. On the bright side, that's a good problem to have.

Scheduling will clearly be one of the biggest issues to address.

I would be glad to throw my hands in for help, but again, location is the issue. I suspect equipment might not be as difficult or expensive to come by as people thing. I dont want to discuss that further out in the open, but whoever is going to be the one in charge is welcome to call me.

There are a couple ways to make portable barricades firm enough to use as support. None of them work real well, but all are OK. The barricades at wildcat were springy, but the ones at Rienholts rocked pretty good too, we made do with all of them.

Shooting sports in IN are now such that we much sacrifice shooting certain matches in order to shoot others. If a person only wants to shoot USPSA and is willing to drive, they can shoot every weekend, sat and sun. Throw in Steel, IDPA, ICORE and MultiGun and its a full schedule. I have no idea what "intelligent" scheduling would consist of. Drawing a crowd will always be difficult, particularly as long as USPSA shooters arent up to shots longer than 15 yards

Rhino, Dave, let me know if i can help in any way.

 

[Coach]

Intelligent scheduling would be to look around at the other disciplines and not set dates on top of other established matches.

 

[slow1911s]

Intelligent scheduling would be to look around at the other disciplines and not set dates on top of other established matches.

Some people might argue that AP was established and had a bigger following long before what is on the current calendar. I heard of monthly matches at Jims that routinely drew 50+.

But, you're right. We had our best success when AP wasn't conflicted by other matches. I wonder though. If people learned that AP would help them move up in class in USPSA, would they be willing to give up one USPSA or IDPA match to get there?

 

[Coach]

Some people might argue that AP was established and had a bigger following long before what is on the current calendar. I heard of monthly matches at Jims that routinely drew 50+.

But, you're right. We had our best success when AP wasn't conflicted by other matches. I wonder though. If people learned that AP would help them move up in class in USPSA, would they be willing to give up one USPSA or IDPA match to get there?

If you read your own post the answer seems to be obvious. AP has faded. Due to leadership not being replenished or interest faded or something. WVPPS had 50 on Sunday and that is the smallest of the year. South Central's attendence is way up as well. Perhaps if it was built the shooters would come.

If someone was wanting to have AP stage a comeback trying to do with as few conflicts as possible would seem the way to go.

AP does not seem to help Doug Koenig with his USPSA shooting. His classification is good, but he does not do well at nationals. They may be related but they are not the same.

 

[slow1911s]

If you read your own post the answer seems to be obvious. AP has faded. Due to leadership not being replenished or interest faded or something. WVPPS had 50 on Sunday and that is the smallest of the year. South Central's attendence is way up as well. Perhaps if it was built the shooters would come.

If someone was wanting to have AP stage a comeback trying to do with as few conflicts as possible would seem the way to go.

AP does not seem to help Doug Koenig with his USPSA shooting. His classification is good, but he does not do well at nationals. They may be related but they are not the same.

Yes it has faded. It faded long before I started shooting it. People change. The sport changed and it was too much for many. Most of that centered around equipment, and to a lesser degree rules. This is what you get when a PAC runs a shooting sport. My point is that it was, arguably, the highest attended "action" handgun competition in the state at one time. It had a draw for a good reason.

AP hasn't helped Doug? I guess winning the Cup and the IPSC World Shoot in the same year really isn't all that great of a performance. Or winning the Steel Challenge and the Cup both two years in a row? Doug is a mercenary. He shoots (and wins) matches that pay. USPSA doesn't pay. He shoots that to satisfy sponsors.

And TGO winning Metallic Sight at the Cup, both Open and Limited titles at the Steel Challenge, USPSA Limited and Limited-10 Nationals, the Standard title at the IPSC World Shoot, and IDPA CDP National Championship all in 2002 was just due to luck.

AP will make you a better USPSA, Steel Challenge, and IDPA shooter.