Not Just Indianapolis police

[Kirk Freeman]

have you been beating up cops again, tazing them when they don't answer your questions as fast as you think they should? Taking their guns and spreading them out for carrying in donut shops?

I try to keep the number of felonies down to the bare minimum.

I did tell IMPD cops that I wasn't impressed and the last gun show I gave the IMPD cops at the door a jar of peanuts for . . . you know, just in case.

I certainly believe in Hanlon's Razor. I know that one should not attribute to malice what can be explained by human stupidity. Maybe that happened here. Maybe something went horribly wrong and it was a comedy of errors--e.g., the blood draw fermented because of the heat (it was 95 or so that day) after the evidence tech stopped for a Subway sandwhich).

However, when something horrible happens and stupid error after stupid error happens, it certainly looks like malice, Clarke's Corollary. This looks like malice and we should not accept the excuse that "no one" would cover this up and it has been done so in the past.

 

[CarmelHP]

If the police supposedly withhold the truth its a coverup. If a lawyer does it its called attorney-client privilege.

It's that rotten adversary system thingy again. It is just too much to require the state actually prove the charges. What were the Founding Fathers thinking when they came up with that? They were a bunch of damned lawyers (35 of 55 delegates to the Constitutional Convention), that's what! It would be so much better if we were more enlightened like Cuba or China and just let the police decide whose head the bullet goes into.

 

[serpicostraight]

im still waiting for all these good cops i keep hearing about to stand up and defend this detective who got railroaded. wheres all the good cops? the fop? they should have thier brothers back in this.

 

[CarmelHP]

im still waiting for all these good cops i keep hearing about to stand up and defend this detective who got railroaded. wheres all the good cops? the fop? they should have thier brothers back in this.

They're all at choir practice.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

They're all at choir practice.

From the same hymnal?

 

[hornadylnl]

Yet, no one here has been taking a hard look at lawyers, the bar, and THEIR conduct. This seems a curious oversight, given that lawyers have far more power over our lives than cops could ever dream of. Lawyers run our legislators, they run our courts, the set the rules in courts and make them so complicated that one must, in practicality, pay them. They write our laws, and determine the manner in which they are enforced.

But, we haven't been taking a look at how they do that, nor have we been looking at how lawyers themselves measure up to expectations. Not that hard to find MANY accounts of corrupt lawyers, lawyers engaging in criminal conduct, etc. Perhaps we should.

Maybe, it's time we start seeing articles of misconduct by these people who wield so much power over our lives posted here daily. They can be a danger to the rights of us all. Nifong, anyone?

I haven't heard of too many lawyers playing judge, jury, and executioner on the side of the road. We are always told that if you feel you are being harassed, illegally detained, etc. during an arrest, the court room is the time and place to sort it out. On the side of the road, the cop IS the STATE. There may not be any witnesses to see what goes down there. I'm not too worried about getting tazed or beat down with a nightstick in the courtroom. If my attorney isn't properly representing me, I can fire him and get a new one. I can't fire Barney Fife while he's arresting me.

I'm not a big fan of lawyers. But lawyer doesn't necessarily equal politician or agent of the state.

 

[Joe Williams]

snip
I'm not a big fan of lawyers. But lawyer doesn't necessarily equal politician or agent of the state.

Actually, a lawyer DOES equal agent of the state. A corrupt prosecutor will make up charges to advance their political career, and they have sent many innocent people to jail for life. You are worried about being tazed by the roadside? I'm surprised you aren't worried about a DA up for election deciding you are his ticket to the governor's office, and sending you to the chair. It's happened.

Defense attorneys? Lazy ones allow the above to happen. There have been more than one instance of defense attorneys colluding with prosecutors to help the above to happen in return for profit and personal gain.

Attorneys write the laws that give the cops you hate so blindly every bit of the authority you have, attorneys are who will decide whether they are right or wrong, more often than not, it will be an attorney who decides your fate from the bench.

You are scared of cops and hate them because they represent the power and authority of the government you despise. But it's the lawyers who write the laws that give them that authority, and lawyers who run the system. Cops are just the pawns of lawyers.

 

[CarmelHP]

Cops are just the pawns of lawyers.

Does that mean I can tell them what to do and they gotta do it? I'm gonna go try it right now. I'll tell y'all how it went when I get back.

 

[hornadylnl]

the cops you hate so blindly

You are scared of cops and hate them

Joe, you are such an excellent mind reader and know exactly what I think and believe. Why are you wasting that talent working for a big box store? Every time you debate someone on here, you shout and bully to try to shut them up. In my now 34 years of life on this earth, I've never been disrespectful to a cop in uniform in my presence. Never had a reason to. I won't disrespect a cop until they give me reason to. But how would I know that, you know me better than I do.

BTW, I didn't know that only lawyers could be politicians.

 

[Joe Williams]

Joe, you are such an excellent mind reader and know exactly what I think and believe. Why are you wasting that talent working for a big box store? Every time you debate someone on here, you shout and bully to try to shut them up. In my now 34 years of life on this earth, I've never been disrespectful to a cop in uniform in my presence. Never had a reason to. I won't disrespect a cop until they give me reason to. But how would I know that, you know me better than I do.

BTW, I didn't know that only lawyers could be politicians.

I can only go by what you post here... and your posts here support what I said.

Sorry you feel that working for a living and supporting my family by the means available is somehow despicable. Reckon I could be sad. But, I consider the source, and the source simply isn't worthy of my respect, so I suppose I'll just muddle on somehow.

 

[hornadylnl]

I can only go by what you post here... and your posts here support what I said.

I've asked you to do this before. Please, in my past 5000 posts, show me where I've said anything nearly as inflammatory or derrogative about LE as you have said about the ATF and the FBI. Keep bullying.

 

[hornadylnl]

I can only go by what you post here... and your posts here support what I said.

Sorry you feel that working for a living and supporting my family by the means available is somehow despicable. Reckon I could be sad. But, I consider the source, and the source simply isn't worthy of my respect, so I suppose I'll just muddle on somehow.

Since you've edited your post since my last response, I'll address the second part now. There is absolutely nothing wrong working where you are at. I've read your job situation over the last year and know that you are absolutely willing to work to take care of your family. You have my respect for that. I just hate to see you waste your mind reading powers when you could be making millions by telling everyone what others think, know and believe in their hearts.

 

[CarmelHP]

I'm back, it didn't work out so well.

 

[serpicostraight]

I'm back, it didn't work out so well.

choir practice rough these days?

 

[rhino]

I can sing.

 

[theweakerbrother]

Police have Garrity Law, isn't that the same thing? I'm not trying to bust anyone's hump but let's be honest about the privileges given to each party.

 

[Eddie]

Yet, no one here has been taking a hard look at lawyers, the bar, and THEIR conduct. This seems a curious oversight, given that lawyers have far more power over our lives than cops could ever dream of. Lawyers run our legislators, they run our courts, the set the rules in courts and make them so complicated that one must, in practicality, pay them. They write our laws, and determine the manner in which they are enforced.

But, we haven't been taking a look at how they do that, nor have we been looking at how lawyers themselves measure up to expectations. Not that hard to find MANY accounts of corrupt lawyers, lawyers engaging in criminal conduct, etc. Perhaps we should.

Maybe, it's time we start seeing articles of misconduct by these people who wield so much power over our lives posted here daily. They can be a danger to the rights of us all. Nifong, anyone?

Attorney discipline is published in both the bar journal and in the case reports. It is rarely interesting though. Most of the time it is some version of "So and So took money from their clients and didn't do the work" or "So and So got busted for drunk driving" along with how many days they get suspended for.

I don't think that there is any version of the "thin blue line" for lawyers. I read the reports for both Indiana and Illinois and both seem to suspend and disbar their attorneys routinely.

Add to that that there is a small body of attorneys in each state whose practices are built around suing other lawyers for malpractice or violations of the FDCPA. It goes on every day but it would not make interesting reading.

Here is the Indiana report for August:

Disciplinary Actions - 8/18 | The Indiana Lawyer

 

[dross]

Why I'm Fond of "Cop-Bashing" Threads, by dross

First, can we please stop calling criticism "bashing?" Bashing is getting personal, or putting all cops in the same category as a bad cop. I'd say lawyers get bashed on this forum at a much higher level, and rate, than cops. There are just fewer threads about it.

Cops are the government. They are the teeth of the government. Cops are the men with guns that represent the power of the government over its citizens.

Police conduct should be held to a much, much higher standard than most other people in our society. As a society, we give police respect, prestige, enormous power, the benefit of the doubt, higher weight to their sworn statements than the average citizen, and better than average pay for the communities they live in.

In response, they owe us the absolute best behavior. It should be hard to get to be a cop, and easy to get fired. Cops who do wrong should be punished at twice the level of consequence. It should be a special and very costly offense to be found guilty of covering up the criminal behavior of a fellow cop. Cops should be held to the absolute highest standards of conduct.

At the least we should be able to use our freedom of speech to expose, talk about, revile, and beat until the horse is hamburger, any and all misconduct we hear about, read about, or find on Youtube.

Free speech like this is citizens regaining their power, not bashing.

And you policemen don't like it, I can't blame you. Along with arguing your position here, I urge you to ruthlessly turn in, turn out, and publically distance yourself from those among you who aren't worthy to be your brothers in blue.

Those of you who reflexively circle the wagons are just as much to blame for knee-jerk cop-bashing as the bashers, and frankly, it's the same trait in both sides.

 

[serpicostraight]

Why I'm Fond of "Cop-Bashing" Threads, by dross

First, can we please stop calling criticism "bashing?" Bashing is getting personal, or putting all cops in the same category as a bad cop. I'd say lawyers get bashed on this forum at a much higher level, and rate, than cops. There are just fewer threads about it.

Cops are the government. They are the teeth of the government. Cops are the men with guns that represent the power of the government over its citizens.

Police conduct should be held to a much, much higher standard than most other people in our society. As a society, we give police respect, prestige, enormous power, the benefit of the doubt, higher weight to their sworn statements than the average citizen, and better than average pay for the communities they live in.

In response, they owe us the absolute best behavior. It should be hard to get to be a cop, and easy to get fired. Cops who do wrong should be punished at twice the level of consequence. It should be a special and very costly offense to be found guilty of covering up the criminal behavior of a fellow cop. Cops should be held to the absolute highest standards of conduct.

At the least we should be able to use our freedom of speech to expose, talk about, revile, and beat until the horse is hamburger, any and all misconduct we hear about, read about, or find on Youtube.

Free speech like this is citizens regaining their power, not bashing.

And you policemen don't like it, I can't blame you. Along with arguing your position here, I urge you to ruthlessly turn in, turn out, and publically distance yourself from those among you who aren't worthy to be your brothers in blue.

Those of you who reflexively circle the wagons are just as much to blame for knee-jerk cop-bashing as the bashers, and frankly, it's the same trait in both sides.

i agree with everything you said but now that i think about it the hiring part seems to be easy and the firing part is hard. seems to me like things are going the wrong way almost like thats the way the government wants them.

 

[hornadylnl]

Why I'm Fond of "Cop-Bashing" Threads, by dross

First, can we please stop calling criticism "bashing?" Bashing is getting personal, or putting all cops in the same category as a bad cop. I'd say lawyers get bashed on this forum at a much higher level, and rate, than cops. There are just fewer threads about it.

Cops are the government. They are the teeth of the government. Cops are the men with guns that represent the power of the government over its citizens.

Police conduct should be held to a much, much higher standard than most other people in our society. As a society, we give police respect, prestige, enormous power, the benefit of the doubt, higher weight to their sworn statements than the average citizen, and better than average pay for the communities they live in.

In response, they owe us the absolute best behavior. It should be hard to get to be a cop, and easy to get fired. Cops who do wrong should be punished at twice the level of consequence. It should be a special and very costly offense to be found guilty of covering up the criminal behavior of a fellow cop. Cops should be held to the absolute highest standards of conduct.

At the least we should be able to use our freedom of speech to expose, talk about, revile, and beat until the horse is hamburger, any and all misconduct we hear about, read about, or find on Youtube.

Free speech like this is citizens regaining their power, not bashing.

And you policemen don't like it, I can't blame you. Along with arguing your position here, I urge you to ruthlessly turn in, turn out, and publically distance yourself from those among you who aren't worthy to be your brothers in blue.

Those of you who reflexively circle the wagons are just as much to blame for knee-jerk cop-bashing as the bashers, and frankly, it's the same trait in both sides.

We couldn't cut out cop bashing as I'd only have like 5 posts. At least that's what some around here believe anyway.