New question 10 on 4473. Indy/Marion county residents....

[Ingomike]

So maybe we are talking past each other.

You said that address is in Indianapolis, did you not? Even though the GIS data says Its in Carmel? Im saying regardless of what anything else says, they are in Carmel and not Indianapolis.

They physically are in Carmel, the address is Indianapolis. Others are physically in Westfield but addressed in Carmel and vice-versa actually. But when getting a DL their factual address is what the postal service says…

I have been explaining this for 30+ years and never run into this much disbelief…

 

[Timjoebillybob]

And that is ALL YOU CAN BE CERTAIN OF.

This implication that it defines where one lives is ludicrous…

This is all that a zip code can tell you, that a zip code defines what city you live in is ludicrous. A zip code is not your address, it's simply a routing number for the post office. As you pointed out in your next post.

Heck, this takes the cake, it might cross state lines. LOL

“Remember that ZIP codes were made to make mail delivery easier. They weren't made to correspond to existing boundaries such as cities, counties, or even states. If it is more efficient for a mail carrier to drive across a state line to deliver mail, the ZIP code "boundary" will cross the state lines.”

https://www.unitedstateszipcodes.org/

Boy does that screw up the whole premise that this question identifies the law enforcement agency where the address is.

Yes if all they asked for on the 4473 is the zip code it would screw up the whole premise.

 

[Ingomike]

This is all that a zip code can tell you, that a zip code defines what city you live in is ludicrous. A zip code is not your address, it's simply a routing number for the post office. As you pointed out in your next post.

Yes if all they asked for on the 4473 is the zip code it would screw up the whole premise.

From the original post:

Question 10 Current State of Residence and Address:

• Question 10: Added “Reside in City Limits? []Yes [] No []Unknown”."

The problem with this whole line of thinking is, your address has nothing to do with what city one actually lives in. So much of the speculation seems ridiculous to me.

They ask state, address and city limits. Some folks address is not the city they live in. Zip code is part of address…

 

[Timjoebillybob]

From the original post:

Question 10 Current State of Residence and Address:

• Question 10: Added “Reside in City Limits? []Yes [] No []Unknown”."

They ask state, address and city limits. Some folks address is not the city they live in. Zip code is part of address…

They ask state, number and street address, city, county, zip, and in/out of city limits. City maybe different than the preferred name for the zip. You stated that the PO determines your address, no they don't. They determine the zip code of your address and the preferred and/or acceptable names for that zip code for their purposes. That is it. Where the property is deeded is what determines name/street, city, county, state and if it's inside or outside city limits.


What this entire conversation has me wondering is does the Carmel P.O. not do delivery? If they do they should probably have their own zip code. I know of a small town that has a P.O. and their own zip, when I say small I believe less than 600 population. They don't even deliver, it's strictly P.O. boxes. Heck I know of a township P.O. that is even smaller, year round population of 26, yes 26 people. Again they have their own zip just for P.O. boxes. Both use the name of where they are located. Buffalo 47925 and Lake Cicott 46942.

Did Carmel spend too much on roundabouts and fountains/statues to be able to afford their own zip code? I can't see them wanting to associate themselves with the lessors in Indy without good reason.

 

[MRockwell]

I just thought of another f'd up example, from Hamilton county no less.
My cousin's wife is on staff at Carey Ridge Elementary School, which is Westfield. She related that there are students from The Bridgewater(one of them uppity golf course communities), which is Carmel zip code 46033.

I don't know what's more confusing in Carmel, the roundyrounds or the dang zip codes.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I just thought of another f'd up example, from Hamilton county no less.
My cousin's wife is on staff at Carey Ridge Elementary School, which is Westfield. She related that there are students from The Bridgewater(one of them uppity golf course communities), which is Carmel zip code 46033.

I don't know what's more confusing in Carmel, the roundyrounds or the dang zip codes.

You think that's messed up/confusing?

My local school district has students from a different county but same zip code. Some students from my zip code go to a different school district in another county with a different zip code. Some from multiple other zip codes go to my local school district. Heck my school district has a school in another zip code with yet another zip code in between.

 

[MRockwell]

You think that's messed up/confusing?

My local school district has students from a different county but same zip code. Some students from my zip code go to a different school district in another county with a different zip code. Some from multiple other zip codes go to my local school district. Heck my school district has a school in another zip code with yet another zip code in between.

Yup, that's even more than I could think of.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Yup, that's even more than I could think of.

Rural communities, a lot of where the kids go to school is dependent on distance to the schools. My local school district has kids from at least 3 different zip codes and 2 counties, and each of those zip codes also has students that go to other districts in other zip codes and/or counties depending on distance. I think kids in my zip code go to school districts in at least 3 different zip codes and counties as well.

I'm guessing that the reason that some Carmel kids go to Westfield is probably similar.

 

[KLB]

example?

Southlake Mall
2109 SOUTHLAKE MALL
MERRILLVILLE, IN 46410

Mall is in Hobart, IN

Whole area around the mall is like that.

Whole town of Winfield, IN has Crown Point mailing addresses.
An example

 

[KLB]

It tends to happen with areas that were incorporated or annexed more recently. Mailing address was established long before the city came into being or annexed the area.

 

[Ingomike]

They ask state, number and street address, city, county, zip, and in/out of city limits. City maybe different than the preferred name for the zip. You stated that the PO determines your address, no they don't. They determine the zip code of your address and the preferred and/or acceptable names for that zip code for their purposes. That is it. Where the property is deeded is what determines name/street, city, county, state and if it's inside or outside city limits.


What this entire conversation has me wondering is does the Carmel P.O. not do delivery? If they do they should probably have their own zip code. I know of a small town that has a P.O. and their own zip, when I say small I believe less than 600 population. They don't even deliver, it's strictly P.O. boxes. Heck I know of a township P.O. that is even smaller, year round population of 26, yes 26 people. Again they have their own zip just for P.O. boxes. Both use the name of where they are located. Buffalo 47925 and Lake Cicott 46942.

Did Carmel spend too much on roundabouts and fountains/statues to be able to afford their own zip code? I can't see them wanting to associate themselves with the lessors in Indy without good reason.

No matter how many other things folks use address for, it’s original purpose was to efficiently deliver the mail and the postal service creates the address. PO,s were in a link I posted above, but that is typically not your address. I say typically because just like the trails ROW discussion we are talking about a system that is well over a hundred years old so there are anomalies all over.

One can have an address in a different city than the city they actually live.

As for why this occurs my understanding is when there is outward growth into limited population areas the post office will use the post office with capacity to handle the new address, on the Indy northside/Carmel (was not city limits then) that was in the 70’s, on the Carmel/Westfiled border that was the late 80’s (the part of Westfield serviced by 46032/46033.

Once this is established it is very expensive to force the businesses and home to use a different address so the post office sometimes will send a survey to ask what city and post office the inhabitants want to use and incorporate the results in their routing decisions. Then about 15 years ago the post office allowed the use of other secondary names.

You are trying way to hard to prove what you clearly do not know.

 

[Ingomike]

I'm guessing that the reason that some Carmel kids go to Westfield is probably similar.

They are not Carmel kids, they are Westield kids, that live in a Carmel zip code, they go to school where they pay taxes, Westield…

 

[Timjoebillybob]

No matter how many other things folks use address for, it’s original purpose was to efficiently deliver the mail and the postal service creates the address. PO,s were in a link I posted above, but that is typically not your address. I say typically because just like the trails ROW discussion we are talking about a system that is well over a hundred years old so there are anomalies all over.

One can have an address in a different city than the city they actually live.

As for why this occurs my understanding is when there is outward growth into limited population areas the post office will use the post office with capacity to handle the new address, on the Indy northside/Carmel (was not city limits then) that was in the 70’s, on the Carmel/Westfiled border that was the late 80’s (the part of Westfield serviced by 46032/46033.

Once this is established it is very expensive to force the businesses and home to use a different address so the post office sometimes will send a survey to ask what city and post office the inhabitants want to use and incorporate the results in their routing decisions. Then about 15 years ago the post office allowed the use of other secondary names.

You are trying way to hard to prove what you clearly do not know.

Once again, the USPS determines zip codes and the preferred and acceptable names for use with that zip code. That is it, state/county/city(maybe developer) determine what the street name you live on, the numerical address on that street, what county it is in, and the name of the town/city you live in. The people inside Carmel city limits live in Carmel, it doesn't matter what the preferred name for their zip code is.

Also the zip codes aren't over 100 years old, they are about 60. Also when you say it was before "city limits" which century are you referring to? Carmel was incorporated in 1874, due to you guessed it wanting a post office.

It tends to happen with areas that were incorporated or annexed more recently. Mailing address was established long before the city came into being or annexed the area.

Correct, mailing address. Not the city they are in. There is a difference. When Southlake mall was built it was unincorporated area, then Hobart incorporated it.

 

[Ingomike]

Once again, the USPS determines zip codes and the preferred and acceptable names for use with that zip code. That is it, state/county/city(maybe developer) determine what the street name you live on, the numerical address on that street, what county it is in, and the name of the town/city you live in. The people inside Carmel city limits live in Carmel, it doesn't matter what the preferred name for their zip code is.

Also the zip codes aren't over 100 years old, they are about 60. Also when you say it was before "city limits" which century are you referring to? Carmel was incorporated in 1874, due to you guessed it wanting a post office.


Correct, mailing address. Not the city they are in. There is a difference. When Southlake mall was built it was unincorporated area, then Hobart incorporated it.

And the post office assigns the city name as in the link YOU posted. Some parts of Carmel were not annexed until about five years ago.

Are there people who live in an city currently that have an address with another city name? Yes or no?

 

[Ingomike]

it doesn't matter what the preferred name for their zip code is.

Yes it does as that is their address and that is what we were discussing.

 

[fullmetaljesus]

You put your address on the damn form why do they need to ask if you're in the city limits?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

And the post office assigns the city name as in the link YOU posted. Some parts of Carmel were not annexed until about five years ago.

Are there people who live in an city currently that have an address with another city name? Yes or no?

How about yes and no. They may have a mailing address that differs from their actual address.

You put your address on the damn form why do they need to ask if you're in the city limits?

In my county over half of the population lives in unincorporated areas, if they are unincorporated their address includes the town/city usually nearest. By asking if your address is in city limits they know what LEA to call if needed. Or at least generally who to call. I do know of some incorporated areas that do/did not have their own police and contracted with usually the county for enforcement.

 

[Ingomike]

How about yes and no. They may have a mailing address that differs from their actual address.

Where are you getting this? Define an “actual address”. Never heard of it. Are you are saying that homes and businesses have multiple addresses? Which address does one use for what? What authority creates these multiple addresses?

BULL S***

 

[Ingomike]

In my county over half of the population lives in unincorporated areas, if they are unincorporated their address includes the town/city usually nearest. By asking if your address is in city limits they know what LEA to call if needed. Or at least generally who to call. I do know of some incorporated areas that do/did not have their own police and contracted with usually the county for enforcement.

Do you have a shred of proof this is true other than opinion?

 

[Ingomike]

You put your address on the damn form why do they need to ask if you're in the city limits?

They believe the ATF will be able to find them and kill their dog if this question is answered….