NEW GUN LAW GETTING A VOTE

[churchmouse]

How come we didn't know that?

Isn't it as if they have knowingly made fools of us?

My friend you act surprised. I for 1 am not.

 

[Trapper Jim]

My friend you act surprised. I for 1 am not.

As I have said for many years now…. It’s not all Democrats. Learn who really to blame instead of cookie cutting Dem hate. Mic Drop.

 

[churchmouse]

As I have said for many years now…. It’s not all Democrats. Learn who really to blame instead of cookie cutting Dem hate. Mic Drop.

My friend I trust no one in Gov.
I repeat....."NO ONE"
They all have agendas, and those agendas are self-important and usually a revenue stream to themselves and those who got them elected and fill their campaign war chests.

Trust no one in Gov. R/D/I by the name makes little to no difference anymore.

 

[actaeon277]

My problem with politicians is the minor problem.

The major problem?
That people vote them into office.

 

[Trapper Jim]

My problem with politicians is the minor problem.

The major problem?
That people vote them into office.

Trump Bashing. Biden Bashing. Makes no difference. Bashing is the ignorant result of the puppets who think they know who the best puppeteers are. Propaganda fed grain doesn’t make an intelligent cow.

 

[bwframe]

So there is no solution to this problem?

 

[churchmouse]

Trump Bashing. Biden Bashing. Makes no difference. Bashing is the ignorant result of the puppets who think they know who the best puppeteers are. Propaganda fed grain doesn’t make an intelligent cow.

Bingo

 

[Trapper Jim]

So there is no solution to this problem?

A solution would be to get 100 percent voter turnout and get all of them to get involved in how our politics work and vote out the self serving fat bellied politicians. I think the last time we did this it had something to do with a party where tea was involved.

 

[jamil]

My problem with politicians is the minor problem.

The major problem?
That people vote them into office.

People are hackable, politically apathetic, self interested, biased, stubborn; I could go on. Just saying it’s understandable because that’s the default human behavior. We can still blame them though. Their parents should not have raised fools. I guess. I still blame the politicians more though because they’re doing the manipulations on purpose. It’s one thing to be a fool. It’s another to manipulate fools for nefarious purposes.

 

[JEBland]

So what happens next. A bill gets passed that is worthless and does nothing but upset the existing process?

I think it's worse than that. If they take this baby step, they might resign themselves into a "close enough" system. First thing we all need to do is write to senators telling them to return the bill to its original intent. The senate is there so everyone gets a voice, not to be manipulated after-hours by a handful of senators. Email and call. Daily. Get friends and family to follow suit.

I'm all for taking every step we can in the right direction, but I think we have a few lessons to learn from this:
- One is that if we suspect a stacked approach by the chair (e.g. Brown), then we have to be sure that we don't make a mistake when filling out the questionnaire online. It would be just horrible to interrupt the intended stack of testimony with support in the middle of their block of negatives.
- Take note of where the anti's are getting their data and be prepared to refute it. For instance, Kelly came with FBI data, then the one woman from the state came with FBI regional data to manipulate the interpretation. Clever, but ******.
- Share resources. Make sure everyone who is presenting has a copy of the same data rather than stacking up.
- Take notes of previous hearings. I used testimony from those opposing to help support our arguments. See what the antis are using and prepare for it.
- Take notes during the hearing. If the committee is just going to cry Heller without knowing what it means to presume, then telling them it's unconstitutional will just make them dig in. We have the moral high ground on this issue, let's use all the tools at our disposal.

I don't know if those steps would've prevented yesterday, but it would help for exposing the ******** arguments. If we start keeping tabs on these senators, we can map out their abuses with case histories and get them primaried. People like Brown and Bohacek are why there aren't many young Republicans and why I'm not a registered Republican.

There's at least 4 threads about this bill and the Senate committee meeting yesterday. Sample letters to representatives are found in the 2022 legislation thread the KLB posted:

2022 Legislative Session Thread

Maybe a bit early for this, but I’ll start it anyway. Maybe some of them read INGO and are looking for ideas for their Christmas lists for the citizens. I’ll start that thread in a moment, but this one will be for stuff that’s actually happening in the legislature. Blessings, Bill

www.indianagunowners.com

 

[jamil]

So there is no solution to this problem?

What is the problem?

If the problem is that people vote for people you don’t like, then I don’t think there is a practical solution. Many of us promoted the idea of voting for the libertarian candidate against Holcomb.

Some people here thought we were crazy. That voting 3rd party would split the Republican vote and then we’d end up with the batshit crazy Democrat. People are afraid that the solution ti that problem could create a worse problem.

I think the problem is establishment politicians who don’t actually support gun rights, but they’re in a state full of gun owners, so they have to pretend that they support the 2A. And so to solve that problem we can’t let them hide from their own attempts to scuttle bills that increase 2A freedoms. Why do these mealy mouth ********ers have A ratings with the NRA?

Another problem is Fudds. I can’t blame them. They haven’t been exposed to a pro gun point of view that isn’t a strawman. Like this thread where someone was apprehensive about increasing freedom, but needed to understand more facts about it.

 

[jamil]

A solution would be to get 100 percent voter turnout and get all of them to get involved in how our politics work and vote out the self serving fat bellied politicians. I think the last time we did this it had something to do with a party where tea was involved.

A lot of people came out to vote for Holcomb. He won in such a landslide I don’t think the problem is that not enough of us vote. I think the percentage of people on INGO who go vote is much higher than the average eligible person. How do we change that?

For one thing I think we have to be more courageous in our voting and dare to vote for a third party. Or maybe get a viable primary candidate who is not a loser.

 

[Ingomike]

As I have said for many years now…. It’s not all Democrats. Learn who really to blame instead of cookie cutting Dem hate. Mic Drop.

The dem hate fits the cookie cutter, sadly, most repubs fit it too, even worse because many gun folks support them…

 

[JEBland]

As noted in the 2022 Legislation thread, it appears that HB 1077 has been reassigned rather than gutted. Updates will be posted there. I think we've got a re-do on this one.

Edit: But the same 3 Dems plus another.

 

[Trapper Jim]

What is the problem?

If the problem is that people vote for people you don’t like, then I don’t think there is a practical solution. Many of us promoted the idea of voting for the libertarian candidate against Holcomb.

Some people here thought we were crazy. That voting 3rd party would split the Republican vote and then we’d end up with the batshit crazy Democrat. People are afraid that the solution ti that problem could create a worse problem.

I think the problem is establishment politicians who don’t actually support gun rights, but they’re in a state full of gun owners, so they have to pretend that they support the 2A. And so to solve that problem we can’t let them hide from their own attempts to scuttle bills that increase 2A freedoms. Why do these mealy mouth ********ers have A ratings with the NRA?

Another problem is Fudds. I can’t blame them. They haven’t been exposed to a pro gun point of view that isn’t a strawman. Like this thread where someone was apprehensive about increasing freedom, but needed to understand more facts about it.

Labeling Fudds as anti gun is counter productive to a uniform force to fight for the 2A. All my life I have seen the riff between Trap and Skeet shooters, Bullseye vs combat, high capacity killing machines vs steel and wood, PCC vs Pistol, IDPA vs USPSA etc.

Seems to be no middle …. Just my way and everyone else are extremists. No open minds. No empathy.

Time will tell when saturation will do us in. Poking the left skunk and the right trying to win votes with empty political promises.

One thing for sure, those of us old enough and have been into guns long enough have witnessed the gun culture change and it will be again witnessed by future generations.

Good luck

See you on the range.

Looks like

 

[ditcherman]

Labeling Fudds as anti gun is counter productive to a uniform force to fight for the 2A. All my life I have seen the riff between Trap and Skeet shooters, Bullseye vs combat, high capacity killing machines vs steel and wood, PCC vs Pistol, IDPA vs USPSA etc.

Seems to be no middle …. Just my way and everyone else are extremists. No open minds. No empathy.

Time will tell when saturation will do us in. Poking the left skunk and the right trying to win votes with empty political promises.

One thing for sure, those of us old enough and have been into guns long enough have witnessed the gun culture change and it will be again witnessed by future generations.

Good luck

See you on the range.

Looks like

Labeling and dividing anybody who is pro-freedom from one another may be counter productive, but if a person is “pro gun, but…” like a fudd may be inclined to be are they really on our (pro freedom) side? At least until exposed/convinced? If you can change their mind then they aren’t really a fudd anymore, they just like what they like but fully support the 2A. Until then, I think sadly we are divided.

 

[jamil]

Labeling Fudds as anti gun is counter productive to a uniform force to fight for the 2A. All my life I have seen the riff between Trap and Skeet shooters, Bullseye vs combat, high capacity killing machines vs steel and wood, PCC vs Pistol, IDPA vs USPSA etc.

Seems to be no middle …. Just my way and everyone else are extremists. No open minds. No empathy.

Time will tell when saturation will do us in. Poking the left skunk and the right trying to win votes with empty political promises.

One thing for sure, those of us old enough and have been into guns long enough have witnessed the gun culture change and it will be again witnessed by future generations.

Good luck

See you on the range.

Looks like

"fudd" is just shorthand for someone who says they're pro-2A but when it comes down to it, they are against eliminating anti-2A laws. I'm not using it to be divisive. I'm using it to refer to a group of people who are part of the problem, and I'm not even saying that it's their fault. If they've only been exposed to a worldview which looks negatively towards gun rights, it's not surprising that they care mostly about the right to use shotguns for sporting purposes, and don't support expanding 2A rights.

This thread is a prime example. I'm not deriding the OP, because it doesn't appear to me that he's had much exposure to the pro, non-strawman side of constitutional carry. And he got a spirited introduction of sorts. It's not that he's a bad person because he hasn't had that exposure. It's understandable. And the solution to that is for them to hear that side of it.

 

[jamil]

Labeling and dividing anybody who is pro-freedom from one another may be counter productive, but if a person is “pro gun, but…” like a fudd may be inclined to be are they really on our (pro freedom) side? At least until exposed/convinced? If you can change their mind then they aren’t really a fudd anymore, they just like what they like but fully support the 2A. Until then, I think sadly we are divided.

Exactly. We're already divided because they kinda think we're nuts because, OMG, we don't think people should need to ask government permission to exercise a right.

I don't think we should be so aggressive with "fudds" that we turn them off to hearing us out. That would just confirm the division instead of dissolving it. Maybe it's the term. Probably people don't like being called a Fudd. I used the term, as I said, as a shortcut to describing the group of people.

 

[actaeon277]

People are hackable, politically apathetic, self interested, biased, stubborn; I could go on. Just saying it’s understandable because that’s the default human behavior. We can still blame them though. Their parents should not have raised fools. I guess. I still blame the politicians more though because they’re doing the manipulations on purpose. It’s one thing to be a fool. It’s another to manipulate fools for nefarious purposes.

I expect liars to lie. I'm not happy about it, but it's expected.
But when people are shown proof of the lie, and continue to believe it...

 

[churchmouse]

People are hackable, politically apathetic, self interested, biased, stubborn; I could go on. Just saying it’s understandable because that’s the default human behavior. We can still blame them though. Their parents should not have raised fools. I guess. I still blame the politicians more though because they’re doing the manipulations on purpose. It’s one thing to be a fool. It’s another to manipulate fools for nefarious purposes.

Well said. Much truth here.