My Experiences with Open Carry

[ATM]

Play time is over!!!

What no links to previous debates?
Ok let’s get this started off hot and heavy, I think some people OC because they are wannabes, attention seekers, or kooks.
Some do. Some CC as well. No points awarded.

I only see one tactical advantage to OC and that would be a quick draw.
OK, +1 for OC

How much slower if any while CCing? I know people I wouldn't want to draw against if they were using an ankle holster and me a drop leg speed holster.
But those people are still faster when they OC. No new points.

Now for the old "it makes people more aware of our 2AM RTBA". Just having your weapon displayed openly does not bring that awareness. What gets them there is your explanation of the laws and corporate policies. You may have made a few store employees become aware but did you change them to your way of thinking or did they just do as there told?
How about it just gets them used to seeing it so they aren't shocked?
Still, no points awarded.

I don’t like the attention. I have better things to do with my time then to explain to everyone or take the time to pull out my license for the cops. They have better things to do also.
We wannabes crave that attention so this is just personal preference. No points.

Just an off-wall question. Say you CC and while walking out in a dark parking lot your spider tingly goes off. You lift your shirt so the weapon is in plain sight and ready but still holstered. Would this be considered Brandishing?
No.

The above statement is for debate purposes only. I do not claim to agree or disagree with anything I post.

Final tally: OC wins by 1 point using your argument.

 

[USMC_0311]

Final tally: OC wins by 1 point using your argument.

biased interpetation

 

[ATM]

biased interpetation

I was going to wait to make my points when OC got behind in the debate.

 

[ATM]

CC or OC..

If and when you all want to exercise our rights in downtown Indianapolis on the circle...

I'm there.

Me too! Good idea.

 

[Soundslikejosh]

One is.



I've heard Jarheads are heads are dense but jeez... <--- that is a bash (lovingly, but a gentle bash none the less).

My comments were directed at the crude and inane drivel spewing from machinegun's keyboard and tarnishing the good name of the Corps. Not at "Marines". Normally the ghetto and that sort of immaturity are purged during recruit training. In short, I expect more. I have no reason to doubt your "vouch" and occasionally one does slip thru the cracks

Just a second, let me get this straight, it was MG's actions in this thread that were dishonorable? I just want to make sure I get it right because this thread is hard to follow and I want to make sure I alienate the correct people. Pot, kettle, do you hear me? Do you copy?

 

[ATM]

Has anyone read Massad Ayoob's concealed carry book? He tells about two examples of private citizens in Indiana that were disarmed and almost killed because the bad guy could see their gun.

Have not read it. Does it detail that they were targeted because they openly carried or just in spite of the fact that they did?

 

[schwaky18]

wow nice thread. Here is my .... To each his own!

I do not open carry because I am too young and would get hassled way too much. Am I letting "the man" stifle my rights? YES. And the "homosexual" argument is the best argument for OC that I read on this thread. If I was 30 or 50 years old I would open carry all the time and welcome the trouble from the cops or ignorant people. But till then I will keep it CC.

No BG is going to neither shoot you first nor take your gun. Most of the time the BG is so fast in his actions that he doesn’t realize his surroundings well enough to notice anyone but a person in a blue uniform. Further as already said, give an example.

As for cops, screw them. If they are messing with you they are just pissed off because you have a gun that is probably the same or better than theirs. All their power is out the window and they are mad because you are equal with them.

Again just my thoughts on this. I think everyone should open carry all the time. Think about it. How many gun permits are in Indiana. If everyone did this people would become accustom to it and care more about their 2A. Not to mention crime would go WAY down. However, as stated I am part of the problem not the solution.

 

[NateIU10]

I do not open carry because I am too young and would get hassled way too much. Am I letting "the man" stifle my rights? YES.

I'm 20, and live in Bloomington, and OC occasionally. Never been hassled.

 

[turnandshoot4]

WOOT WOOT! Someone read my analogy!!

 

[Rookie]

Have not read it. Does it detail that they were targeted because they openly carried or just in spite of the fact that they did?

It details that they were targeted EVEN THOUGH they openly carried which makes an argument about open carry being a deterrence.

"...no points at all for the open carry deterrence argument and two strong cases in point against letting the guy see beforehand that you have a gun, and letting him see where it is."

 

[ATM]

Thanks Rookie. The fact that open carry does not deter all criminals is no argument against the fact that it is an admitted deterrent to most of them. It is my belief that one simply must go with the odds.

 

[dburkhead]

It details that they were targeted EVEN THOUGH they openly carried which makes an argument about open carry being a deterrence.

"...no points at all for the open carry deterrence argument and two strong cases in point against letting the guy see beforehand that you have a gun, and letting him see where it is."

Fallacy of non-representative sample. I don't believe that anybody seriously claimed that Open Carry will always make the criminals go elsewhere. Thus, being able to cite two cases where they didn't does not refute the "deterrence" argument. If there were more than two cases where they did go elsewhere, then deterrence could be said to work. The problem is that you don't see the cases where they go elsewhere, where the potential robber sees an armed citizen and decides to just buy a pack of smokes rather than holding up the clerk.

It's the same problem we, as gun owners, face from the Antis--they don't want to acknowledge the crimes that don't happen.

 

[cce1302]

Ok with all the "who's a Marine" on this thread, you have forced me to put up an avatar-3d Marine Division, where I spent some of my best time in the Marine Corps. I'd like to put all the units I've served in, but there isn't room. I guess my being a Marine will surprise some of you because I can spell and put sentences together. (I'm still active duty, by the way.) This isn't about who's a Marine and who's a wannabe, or who carries the way they do because they did or did not serve. Obviously we have good people on both sides, and both have good reasons for OC or CC. I hope some of you guys that think "I'll never OC" will consider OCing once or twice. It can be addictive. Believe it or not, probably everybody that OCs once thought, "I won't OC" for reasons that are similar to yours. Then we took a step back, thought about it, and said, "I won't be ashamed of carrying a gun. I won't let the disdainful looks from soccer moms dissuade me. I'll proudly OC in Chipotle and watch the ND college students look at me like I came from another planet." And we enjoy it. Come out of the holster (closet) and OC with us.

 

[MACHINEGUN]

 

[Tommy2Tone]

well...that was fun

 

[USMC_0311]

The problem is that you don't see the cases where they go elsewhere, where the potential robber sees an armed citizen and decides to just buy a pack of smokes holds it up the clerk later.

It's the same problem we, as gun owners, face from the Antis--they don't want to acknowledge the crimes that don't happen.

Its not deterence its delayed. A CCer in the same situtation may be able to prevent the bad guy from commiting more crimes. Just a thought.

 

[concrete dog]

trust me everybody it doesnt matter if the gun is cc or oc the darn thing is still going to go if it is loaded.i oc half and cc half the time.i agree this is a crazy up down thread.

 

[USMC_0311]

I've heard Jarheads are heads are dense but jeez... <--- that is a bash (lovingly, but a gentle bash none the less).

Thanks for the love man. I don't know but did I just get insulted? I thought the only one that could call a Marine "Jarhead" was another Marine. Unless of course they were on medication or just wanted one of theses .

occasionally one does slip thru the cracks

That explains your existence but contrubutes nothing to the OP.

I CC and I don't care if I print so I kind of OC especially when I stretch.


The above statement is for debate purposes only. I do not claim to agree or disagree with anything I post.

 

[semperfi211]

Ok with all the "who's a Marine" on this thread, you have forced me to put up an avatar-3d Marine Division, where I spent some of my best time in the Marine Corps. I'd like to put all the units I've served in, but there isn't room. I guess my being a Marine will surprise some of you because I can spell and put sentences together. (I'm still active duty, by the way.) This isn't about who's a Marine and who's a wannabe, or who carries the way they do because they did or did not serve. Obviously we have good people on both sides, and both have good reasons for OC or CC. I hope some of you guys that think "I'll never OC" will consider OCing once or twice. It can be addictive. Believe it or not, probably everybody that OCs once thought, "I won't OC" for reasons that are similar to yours. Then we took a step back, thought about it, and said, "I won't be ashamed of carrying a gun. I won't let the disdainful looks from soccer moms dissuade me. I'll proudly OC in Chipotle and watch the ND college students look at me like I came from another planet." And we enjoy it. Come out of the holster (closet) and OC with us.

Semper Fi
United States Marine Corps - Together We Served

 

[dburkhead]

Its not deterence its delayed. A CCer in the same situtation may be able to prevent the bad guy from commiting more crimes. Just a thought.

However, to be blunt, my object is to go home safely at the end of the day. I'm not a cop. I'm not paid to put my butt on the line for other people. I will, if the situation arises, but I'm under no obligation to go looking for it or to encourage it.

Also, note that one of the anti's arguments against carrying is that the criminals don't stop being criminals, they just move someplace else (one of the reasons used to blame DC' high crime on neighboring Virginia). Are you sure you want to grant that argument validity?

However, in the end, both of those are side issues. My posting here simply addressed the single question of the "tactical" argument against OC--that the criminals in question will target you first. That assertion keeps being made, but there is essentially little to no evidence to support it. Yes, you can find a handful of examples of it happening, but what you don't see are the crimes that didn't happen (at that place, at that time) because someone was OC'ing and the BG decided to exercise the better part of valor (at that place, at that time).