More FBI Shenanigans

[KellyinAvon]

I’m want my country back.

 

[Chewie]

The lunatics are taking over the asylum (if they haven't already)!

 

[Route 45]

 

[Route 45]

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Yeah, not many facts yet, but based on what I've seen I kind of have to guess the FBI was actually in the right on this latest one. I mean, maybe the actually did shoot him in cold blood, but seeing as he had facebook posts literally saying he'd shoot the FBI if they tried to enter his house, what do you expect would happen? Not that there might not have been some hypocrisy in the response to this guy as opposed to folks threatening Donald Trump or other conservative politicians, but I see the issue being their lack of response to those cases, and not an overreaction to this case. Isn't this the very thing they're meant to do to prevent assassinations, mass shootings, and so forth?

 

[ghuns]

Yeah, not many facts yet, but based on what I've seen I kind of have to guess the FBI was actually in the right on this latest one. I mean, maybe the actually did shoot him in cold blood, but seeing as he had facebook posts literally saying he'd shoot the FBI if they tried to enter his house, what do you expect would happen? Not that there might not have been some hypocrisy in the response to this guy as opposed to folks threatening Donald Trump or other conservative politicians, but I see the issue being their lack of response to those cases, and not an overreaction to this case. Isn't this the very thing they're meant to do to prevent assassinations, mass shootings, and so forth?

What he said.

People who are bats**t crazy and just happen to be politically aligned with the average INGO member can still be bats**t crazy enough to deserve a dirt nap at the hands of the law enforcement. His politics didn't get him killed. His crazy did.

Randy Weaver this guy wasn't.

 

[KLB]

Yeah, not many facts yet, but based on what I've seen I kind of have to guess the FBI was actually in the right on this latest one. I mean, maybe the actually did shoot him in cold blood, but seeing as he had facebook posts literally saying he'd shoot the FBI if they tried to enter his house, what do you expect would happen? Not that there might not have been some hypocrisy in the response to this guy as opposed to folks threatening Donald Trump or other conservative politicians, but I see the issue being their lack of response to those cases, and not an overreaction to this case.

It is just as possible that they went there expecting a fight, saw him armed, overreacted and shot him.

It helps if the guy can actually follow through on his threats. I want to know why they felt it necessary to do a raid early in the morning rather than knocking on the door and talking to the guy. All we know is he posted some nonsense on social media, he was old and fairly lame, and his neighbors say he had no signs of being violent, only of talking on the Internet.

Isn't this the very thing they're meant to do to prevent assassinations, mass shootings, and so forth?

Go shoot them before they do something bad?

 

[Jaybird1980]

What he said.

People who are bats**t crazy and just happen to be politically aligned with the average INGO member can still be bats**t crazy enough to deserve a dirt nap at the hands of the law enforcement. His politics didn't get him killed. His crazy did.

Randy Weaver this guy wasn't.

So do we get to start handing out dirt naps to crazy people or is that only a FBI thing?

What was the reason to kick the door in at 6am of an old man that doesn't have the capability to carry out any of the threats?

There happens to be a crazy old man that threatens a large portion of the country, they made him president.

They will say he went for a gun. Yeah well you kicked in his door while he was more than likely sleeping, a lot of people will be going for a gun at that point.

Sure he was crazy, they took advantage of that.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Yeah, not many facts yet, but based on what I've seen I kind of have to guess the FBI was actually in the right on this latest one. I mean, maybe the actually did shoot him in cold blood, but seeing as he had facebook posts literally saying he'd shoot the FBI if they tried to enter his house, what do you expect would happen? Not that there might not have been some hypocrisy in the response to this guy as opposed to folks threatening Donald Trump or other conservative politicians, but I see the issue being their lack of response to those cases, and not an overreaction to this case. Isn't this the very thing they're meant to do to prevent assassinations, mass shootings, and so forth?

This was not an assassination attempt or a mass shooting. This was an old guy pissed of saying stupid things on the Internet, likely because that's all he was capable of.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Go shoot them before they do something bad?

When they are literally telling the world that they're going to do something bad, and "something bad" means shooting innocent people or assassinating politicians, yes.

This was not an assassination attempt or a mass shooting. This was an old guy pissed of saying stupid things on the Internet, likely because that's all he was capable of.

What if it had turned out the other way? What if a conservative politician was shot and killed by some lefty who had threatened multiple times online to do just that? Wouldn't we be all over the FBI for not doing anything about it (and rightly so)?

And it doesn't take an athlete to pull the trigger on a gun. He still had the ability to hold a rifle, and get from one place to another, so I really don't get the argument that he wasn't capable of following through on his threats.

 

[manifest destiny]

I seem to recall a lot of the recent mass school shooter having been 'on the fbi radar' prior to their evil actions. The fbi didn't systematically execute them, though. Obviously this old man was a loon with angy words that constituted a legit threat. Maybe arresting these types of people would be a better first step vs. no-knock executions.

 

[Jaybird1980]

When they are literally telling the world that they're going to do something bad, and "something bad" means shooting innocent people or assassinating politicians, yes.

What if it had turned out the other way? What if a conservative politician was shot and killed by some lefty who had threatened multiple times online to do just that? Wouldn't we be all over the FBI for not doing anything about it (and rightly so)?

And it doesn't take an athlete to pull the trigger on a gun. He still had the ability to hold a rifle, and get from one place to another, so I really don't get the argument that he wasn't capable of following through on his threats.

Nobody was shot and killed, nobody even tried to shoot at a politician.
Was he going to shoot him from his bed or breakfast table?

I never said he shouldn't have been on the radar or even monitored, kicking in his door in the early hours and killing him is unacceptable IMO.

I have a neighbor that has threatened to kill me more times than I can remember, the popo still haven't kicked in his door and killed him yet.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

So do we get to start handing out dirt naps to crazy people or is that only a FBI thing?

What was the reason to kick the door in at 6am of an old man that doesn't have the capability to carry out any of the threats?

There happens to be a crazy old man that threatens a large portion of the country, they made him president.

They will say he went for a gun. Yeah well you kicked in his door while he was more than likely sleeping, a lot of people will be going for a gun at that point.

Sure he was crazy, they took advantage of that.

The only description I've heard is from the linked article "Eyewitnesses reported that the FBI team approached the victim’s home and attempted entry. Initially, they tried to gain access through the door using a battering ram. Unsuccessful in that attempt, they subsequently utilized a vehicle-mounted ram to enter via the front window." So while it doesn't say whether or not they first tried to knock on the door and see if he would come out peacefully, it does sound like they took some time trying to get into the house, so it doesn't seem likely that he was startled out of bed right as they were entering.

Again, not all the facts are out, and when the full facts do come out, yes, the FBI could definitely turn out to be partly to blame in this one.

All I'm saying is that if I had to guess right now, given this guy's social media history, is it really too surprising to think that he might have know full well that the FBI were the ones trying to get in his house, and in response decided to lock his door and wait for them with a rifle aimed and ready?

 

[chipbennett]

Yeah, not many facts yet, but based on what I've seen I kind of have to guess the FBI was actually in the right on this latest one. I mean, maybe the actually did shoot him in cold blood, but seeing as he had facebook posts literally saying he'd shoot the FBI if they tried to enter his house, what do you expect would happen? Not that there might not have been some hypocrisy in the response to this guy as opposed to folks threatening Donald Trump or other conservative politicians, but I see the issue being their lack of response to those cases, and not an overreaction to this case. Isn't this the very thing they're meant to do to prevent assassinations, mass shootings, and so forth?

Such social media posts typically warrant a visit from the Secret Service, don't they? Aren't they responsible for the security of POTUS?

As for FBI being in the right: a no-knock raid at 6:15am, in which they plow in through the window and shoot the guy? Especially considering that they have been watching/tailing this guy for some time, reportedly?

Even if the guy should have been in custody, pending investigation of the intent, means, and opportunity to carry out threats against POTUS, that means that he should be taken into custody, not subjected to FBI-as-judge/jury/executioner.

 

[Jaybird1980]

The only description I've heard is from the linked article "Eyewitnesses reported that the FBI team approached the victim’s home and attempted entry. Initially, they tried to gain access through the door using a battering ram. Unsuccessful in that attempt, they subsequently utilized a vehicle-mounted ram to enter via the front window." So while it doesn't say whether or not they first tried to knock on the door and see if he would come out peacefully, it does sound like they took some time trying to get into the house, so it doesn't seem likely that he was startled out of bed right as they were entering.

Again, not all the facts are out, and when the full facts do come out, yes, the FBI could definitely turn out to be partly to blame in this one.

All I'm saying is that if I had to guess right now, given this guy's social media history, is it really too surprising to think that he might have know full well that the FBI were the ones trying to get in his house, and in response decided to lock his door and wait for them with a rifle aimed and ready?

That's a lot of speculation.

If someone starts trying to break down your door in the early hours what is your response.

Now add in the fact that it's an old man with real mobility issues. Does him leaping into some sort of counter attack seem plausible? Not really to me, I would guess he was startled and then very confused.

I'm not trying to say he wasn't crazy, I'm saying that if kicking in crazy people's doors in the early morning hours is going to be a thing id like to know.

The only threat that was in motion was from the FBI.

 

[manifest destiny]

I remember a time when crazy people that didn't want to come out of there house and the police would station a few officers around the house, turn off the utilities and try to convince them to surrender. Those tactics have been replaced with armored battery tanks, explosives and dozen armed men that will shoot the first thing that twitches when they enter.

 

[chipbennett]

What he said.

People who are bats**t crazy and just happen to be politically aligned with the average INGO member can still be bats**t crazy enough to deserve a dirt nap at the hands of the law enforcement. His politics didn't get him killed. His crazy did.

Randy Weaver this guy wasn't.

Really? What threat was he to POTUS, or anyone else, likely sleeping, at 6:15AM?

Is Due Process no longer a thing?

 

[chipbennett]

When they are literally telling the world that they're going to do something bad, and "something bad" means shooting innocent people or assassinating politicians, yes.

No. That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.

Use of deadly force requires an imminent threat - even for law enforcement.

What if it had turned out the other way? What if a conservative politician was shot and killed by some lefty who had threatened multiple times online to do just that? Wouldn't we be all over the FBI for not doing anything about it (and rightly so)?

Turned out what other way? This guy actually being able to carry out any kind of credible threat strains credulity. Regardless, you knock on the guy's door and talk to him - and take him into custody, if need be.

And it doesn't take an athlete to pull the trigger on a gun. He still had the ability to hold a rifle, and get from one place to another, so I really don't get the argument that he wasn't capable of following through on his threats.

Easy to say, now that any investigation into the credibility of his threats is moot, since he was killed while posing no threat to anyone.

 

[BugI02]

I’m want my country back.

"What do all men with power want? More power." - The Oracle, Matrix Reloaded

It won't be given back, we'll have to take it

 

[Jaybird1980]

I remember a time when crazy people that didn't want to come out of there house and the police would station a few officers around the house, turn off the utilities and try to convince them to surrender. Those tactics have been replaced with armored battery tanks, explosives and dozen armed men that will shoot the first thing that twitches when they enter.

That may be acceptable for a crazy person who has already committed a crime. This guy only posted stupid stuff on the Internet.

They could have watched him as they apparently were. Then they could have made contact with him when he left or was outside of his home.