Mandated vaccines or weekly testing for employers of 100+ people.......

[Alpo]

Can we force people to have an abortion?

The point being made was its opposite: You cannot force anyone in a free society to do anything.

Existentialism meets pragmatism.

 

[phylodog]

Dang. I think another group of people use those lines....

oh yeah. Women.

Correct and boy howdy does it **** them off when it is used in this context.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

You cannot force anyone in a free society to do anything.

100% agree.

 

[Tombs]

When I need advice from Genghis Khan's reincarnation, I'll let you know.

You're quite literally suggesting if an employer pays health benefits, they own the rights to your personhood.

That is slavery on the most basic level.

And another fine example of why people on the right fear universal healthcare. Because people with your view are usually the ones advocating universal healthcare.

 

[Tombs]

Probably a better case is someone in the food processing/preparation industries who tests positive for Hep C.

Would that concern you?

Are there jobs where having hep C isn't a problem, that pay just as well and are just as commonly available?

That kind of gets into debating hiring someone without legs to play baseball. There's still plenty of things they can do.

Where this diverges from the vaccine mandates is that this is affecting basically the entire job sector. Every person, regardless of abilities or disabilities.

 

[Noble Sniper]

Truly makes me wonder how long they are gonna push and until they get pushed back HARD!!!! Like no ones pushed back in generations. Could possibly make them rewrite the definition of insurrection!!!

 

[1DOWN4UP]

 

[actaeon277]

 

[Shadow01]

Sadly, our president disagree.

And he’s a moron. What’s your point?

 

[JCSR]

And he’s a moron. What’s your point?

 

[bwframe]

 

[NKBJ]

When you don't get job jabbed and walk away the demonization process is already in place. You killed the economy.

 

[jamil]

It sort of is.......

Do they pay any portion of your health insurance? Are they self-insured?

I think if an employer was having a difficult negotiating next year’s insurance health benefits for unvaccinated employees, I think they have a right to reflect that in their benefits packages. Of course that reality looks quite different from sacking employees for not being vaccinated.

 

[jamil]

Ummm, no it's not. They do not own my body.

They don’t own your body but there is a legitimate financial interest there. 1) they insure you. 2) they insure everyone else. Health insurance companies are certainly including COVID risks in their negotiations for future plan years. They may charge more for covering non-vaccinated people. They may charge companies more who have unvaccinated people working in proximity to everyone else.

 

[jamil]

Here's a crazy thought - what if getting vaccinated was protecting your health?

I know, I know, it sound ridiculous to you.

What if it doesn’t actually accomplish that enough to justify mandates?

 

[jamil]

They are only responsible for maintaining a workplace as free of physical dangers as practical. MY choice to be vaccinated only affects MY safety, not anyone else's, since everyone's else's vaccination should protect them if the vaccinations are indeed effective.

Vaccines seem to provide some benefit. Given what’s happening in Israel and a few other places it’s obvious that vaccinated people can spread covid and vaccinated people can get covid. But the data look like vaccinated people who have covid tend to have better outcomes depending on their age. And vaccinated people have a shorter period of time when they are contagious.

So your vaccination status may affect others at least a little. Enough to justify mandates? Absolutely kot. That’s batshit crazy irrational nonsense. But, it does seem to justify insurance companies charging employers more depending on circumstances. So maybe that means you pay more for your healthcare.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Vaccines seem to provide some benefit. Given what’s happening in Israel and a few other places it’s obvious that vaccinated people can spread covid and vaccinated people can get covid. But the data look like vaccinated people who have covid tend to have better outcomes depending on their age. And vaccinated people have a shorter period of time when they are contagious.

So your vaccination status may affect others at least a little. Enough to justify mandates? Absolutely kot. That’s batshit crazy irrational nonsense. But, it does seem to justify insurance companies charging employers more depending on circumstances. So maybe that means you pay more for your healthcare.

It would be interesting to see side by side figures of insurance pay-outs for illness during flu season pre-Covid and insurance payouts for illness for the corresponding period post-covid, both with and without vaccinations. I wonder if it would show enough of a difference to justify the higher insurance costs to the employer/employee.

 

[KLB]

My company self insures for our medical. We have no mandate. Expenses were so high this year that they are refunding our contributions for the month of December.

 

[jamil]

You've taken a generalized statement by Actaeon and whittle the argument with a chainsaw to fit your agenda.

I stand by my staement, as conditional as it might be.

Look, an employer might believe government published data on infection, hospitalization and death rates from covid and make a judgement that the unvaccinated folks represent a higher potential level of expense for the company. And, if they do nothing, and someone dies as a result of exposure traced to an unvaccinated employee.....well, there's your answer. The employer is going to take the road that will lead to the least likely negative outcome.

I think it would be health insurers who would drive that. Even for self insured companies, they still rely on insurance companies to manage it and to help determine risk and cost. But I think that’s something that may end up in court. The data comimg from other countries is far less supportive of the narrative here on vaccine safety and efficacy.

 

[jamil]

It would be interesting to see side by side figures of insurance pay-outs for illness during flu season pre-Covid and insurance payouts for illness for the corresponding period post-covid, both with and without vaccinations. I wonder if it would show enough of a difference to justify the higher insurance costs to the employer/employee.

Agreed, that analysis needs done. Insurance companies have a stake in finding reasons to charge higher premiums. So I don’t want them being the only ones doing it. Just like vaccine companies shouldn’t be the only ones driving vaccine research.

Pfizer has made $100B from covid vaccines. It’s obviously in their own interests to drive a belief that emergency use, no liability, and vaccine mandates are in the public’s best interests. High premiums sound like a similar windfall for insurance companies.