Man Accidentally Shoots Himself In The Butt At Indiana Mall

[7urtle]

or just keep your figure off the trigger.....

 

[singlesix]

This is going to keep happening. Some of the ideas that have developed over the last couple decades would have been seen as crazy not long ago.

Somehow its been decided that if your carry weapon has a safety it is just a useless POS
And that if you carry with an empty chamber, then your an idiot and are doomed to die in a "real" firefight!

This is BS.

But you got folks that buy it hook line and sinker. And will argue all day long, and show youtube proof of how fast it goes down...

I am not a cop and I am not in a combat situation. I carry with an external safety and nothing in the pipe. Yes I said empty chamber and safety, if you have to ask why both, then I know what kind of training you have had. And you don't understand what an accident is.

I don't want to shoot anyone and chances are far greater that I won't have to, neither will you. So shouldn't we make sure the one person we never shoot is our self?

We see numbers all the time of ND or AD, some with fatal consequence plenty of them. But I would love to see numbers on how many people get shot because they didn't get their gun at ready fast enough.

What do we do in this situation? Blame it on a cheap holster.
Fact is if this kid had been totting an empty chamber, we wouldn't know anything about him. But he wouldn't have been "tactical ready" like all the cool dudes.

Flame on.

The issue is that we will never know the real story. People lie under stressful situations. So instead of I was playing with my pistol and I pulled the trigger, it's it just went off, or I was holstering it, etc, etc. Safeties can't fix stupid.

 

[Plague421]

I would love to see numbers on how many people get shot because they didn't get their gun at ready fast enough.

Well, the best way I can think of to get numbers on this would be under controlled training conditions in simulated scenarios.
Anybody care to volunteer their time to research and compile that stat?
Sounds like something you could make a day of.

I carry with an external safety and nothing in the pipe. Yes I said empty chamber and safety, if you have to ask why both, then I know what kind of training you have had. And you don't understand what an accident is.

I agree that having an external safety is a good idea. It doesn't take much practice drawing your gun to become fluid in turning a thumb safety off mid-draw.
Muscle memory and weapon familiarity are key here. I don't see how the literal half second to flip the safety would make any difference in the outcome.

I disagree with you on carrying one in the chamber. I think that one in the chamber is how you should carry if in public.
Would it be necessary for being in your home? Probably not.
I like to think that in the event of a home invasion, I would have heard/seen something upon the intruders entry giving me time to chamber a round.

I think that a surprise or sudden, close quarters robbery/mugging would not give you adequate time to chamber.
So you may as well have been walking around with a stapler in your holster.

Just my

 

[BehindBlueI's]

This is going to keep happening. Some of the ideas that have developed over the last couple decades would have been seen as crazy not long ago.

Somehow its been decided that if your carry weapon has a safety it is just a useless POS
And that if you carry with an empty chamber, then your an idiot and are doomed to die in a "real" firefight!

This is BS.

But you got folks that buy it hook line and sinker. And will argue all day long, and show youtube proof of how fast it goes down...

I am not a cop and I am not in a combat situation. I carry with an external safety and nothing in the pipe. Yes I said empty chamber and safety, if you have to ask why both, then I know what kind of training you have had. And you don't understand what an accident is.

I don't want to shoot anyone and chances are far greater that I won't have to, neither will you. So shouldn't we make sure the one person we never shoot is our self?

We see numbers all the time of ND or AD, some with fatal consequence plenty of them. But I would love to see numbers on how many people get shot because they didn't get their gun at ready fast enough.

What do we do in this situation? Blame it on a cheap holster.
Fact is if this kid had been totting an empty chamber, we wouldn't know anything about him. But he wouldn't have been "tactical ready" like all the cool dudes.

Flame on.

External safety is alright as long as you're willing to practice until you can't get it wrong. Empty chamber is a terrible idea, period. If you feel the need to carry over an empty chamber, carry a revolver. You can leave the one under the hammer empty but still have a cartridge ready to go with a single trigger press.

Before you go running your yap about what training, etc. folks have : https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...96940-random-violence-stats-ive-compiled.html

I've been doing this for awhile and have a pretty good idea what gets folks killed in gun fights and what leads to ADs as I investigate and keep stats on both. It includes when speed of the draw mattered, so feel free to check it out. Empty chamber carry assumes you'll have both hands available, won't be tangled up and jerked around, etc. It leads to not knowing the condition of the weapon and ejecting live rounds or ADs because "it's empty". The military (where most folks think they got trained to operate a pistol and have the empty chamber carry notion) has numerous reasons for empty chamber carry in garrison, and they do not apply to a lone concealed carrier.

 

[halfmileharry]

Some people will never get it. I know a LEO that's had 4 NDs and had a buddy that shot himself TWICE in the rt foot.
You're not going to fix stupid. eg...Darwin.

 

[Tactically Fat]

seagullplayer: Have you had any formal defensive handgun training?

 

[chipbennett]

What an as***le.

Two, now. Technically speaking.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Two, now. Technically speaking.

finally someone got it. that joke was gold, jerry. gold.

 

[chipbennett]

It just keeps happening: Police: Accidental shooting at South Towne Expo Center during gun show | KUTV

The Four Rules are life. Golly, it's like I know what I am talking about or something.

FTA:

Sergeant Dean Carriger, public information officer for Sandy Police, says that around 5 p.m. a 62-year-old man was leaving the expo center when he holstered his .40 caliber handgun. According to Carriger, as the man was holstering the gun it discharged, hitting the man in the thigh.

What are the odds that the man was reholstering after reloading his pistol - that he only unloaded in the first place, thanks to stupid rules that require doing so? The safest place for a loaded firearm is in its holster. Forcing people to unholster, unload, reload, and reholster them for no good reason only serves to introduce an inherently unsafe circumstance that will inevitablly lead to a safety incident.

Did he violate the Four Rules? Obviously. But if your firearm is and remains holstered, you have a zero percent chance of violating the Four Rules.

 

[chipbennett]

It's better to leave in the holster when you can, but sometimes for some people, that's not a viable option (regardless of what Kirk believes).

If you do choose to unholster and then reholster (whether for bathroom duties or otherwise), there are some simple concepts to apply that will prevent both a negligent discharge and the ensuing injury and property damage. Simple things like not pointing the muzzle at stuff you don't want to shoot, keeping your finger and everything else out of the trigger guard, use a properly designed and constructed holster, etc. I know I'm preaching to the crowd, but there are certainly people reading this who could use the reminder (including me).

I just get the impression that too many people think that compulsively adhering to safety protocols is merely slavish devotion to rituals that aren't really necessary. We all need to embrace that it's not about obeying rules or whether or not you think they apply to you. It's all about not shooting stuff that not's not supposed to be shot. To reach that goal, obeying the safety rules is an integral part of the path.

QFT

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to rhino again."

Freakin' Rep Nazis

 

[henktermaat]

I won't poop anywhere but at my house. Not only is pooping in public restrooms gross, but I prefer to poop in the nude for maximum comfort and there was this one time when I first pooped and wiped alone out in public at school when I somehow got crap on the back flap of my older brother's old shirt I was wearing that was too big and had to tuck it in super tight for the rest of the day at school. Now I only poop at home and in the nude.

This post makes my whole membership here at INGO worthwhile.

 

[rhino]

I won't poop anywhere but at my house. Not only is pooping in public restrooms gross, but I prefer to poop in the nude for maximum comfort and there was this one time when I first pooped and wiped alone out in public at school when I somehow got crap on the back flap of my older brother's old shirt I was wearing that was too big and had to tuck it in super tight for the rest of the day at school. Now I only poop at home and in the nude.

Many of us demand the Home Field Advantage for such activities. Plus, when you're at home, you can brace your feet on the blocks that you mounted on the floor so you can really get after it.

QFT

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to rhino again."

Freakin' Rep Nazis

It's The Man keepin' us down again.

 

[2A_Tom]

This is going to keep happening. Some of the ideas that have developed over the last couple decades would have been seen as crazy not long ago.

Somehow its been decided that if your carry weapon has a safety it is just a useless POS
And that if you carry with an empty chamber, then your an idiot and are doomed to die in a "real" firefight!

This is BS.

But you got folks that buy it hook line and sinker. And will argue all day long, and show youtube proof of how fast it goes down...

I am not a cop and I am not in a combat situation. I carry with an external safety and nothing in the pipe. Yes I said empty chamber and safety, if you have to ask why both, then I know what kind of training you have had. And you don't understand what an accident is.

I don't want to shoot anyone and chances are far greater that I won't have to, neither will you. So shouldn't we make sure the one person we never shoot is our self?

We see numbers all the time of ND or AD, some with fatal consequence plenty of them. But I would love to see numbers on how many people get shot because they didn't get their gun at ready fast enough.

What do we do in this situation? Blame it on a cheap holster.
Fact is if this kid had been totting an empty chamber, we wouldn't know anything about him. But he wouldn't have been "tactical ready" like all the cool dudes.

Flame on.

This from a member, cop who has done the math. https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...96940-random-violence-stats-ive-compiled.html

 

[2A_Tom]

External safety is alright as long as you're willing to practice until you can't get it wrong. Empty chamber is a terrible idea, period. If you feel the need to carry over an empty chamber, carry a revolver. You can leave the one under the hammer empty but still have a cartridge ready to go with a single trigger press.

Before you go running your yap about what training, etc. folks have : https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...96940-random-violence-stats-ive-compiled.html

I've been doing this for awhile and have a pretty good idea what gets folks killed in gun fights and what leads to ADs as I investigate and keep stats on both. It includes when speed of the draw mattered, so feel free to check it out. Empty chamber carry assumes you'll have both hands available, won't be tangled up and jerked around, etc. It leads to not knowing the condition of the weapon and ejecting live rounds or ADs because "it's empty". The military (where most folks think they got trained to operate a pistol and have the empty chamber carry notion) has numerous reasons for empty chamber carry in garrison, and they do not apply to a lone concealed carrier.

Sorry JBT you beat me to it.

 

[Old Dog]

Many of us demand the Home Field Advantage for such activities. Plus, when you're at home, you can brace your feet on the blocks that you mounted on the floor so you can really get after it.


Man, that is funny. Now I just can't get the picture out of my head!!

 

[JettaKnight]

No, no, no.

Never poop on your own time and never sweat on the companies time.

 

[2A_Tom]

AH! Unions.

 

[seagullplayer]

BehindBlueI's, that is some great work you are doing!

If I understand, out of 19 incidents you found that in 7 speed of the draw was a factor? (What kind of time period was this sample?)

How many civilians carry each day, how many of those will need to draw their weapon? Vs how many ND or AD take place?

A very small percentage of us will ever need to draw our weapon in a defensive action, of those it appears less than half will involve speed of draw.

Look up how many shots are fired accidentally every year. And most of those are reported because someone was killed or seriously injured.
Wonder how many near misses go unreported?

Looks to me like we would be much safer to plan for the carry and not for the draw.

If training was the only answer states that have mandatory classes would never have an incident.

 

[2A_Tom]

Is it just me or does he remind anyone of a recently shootered member?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

BehindBlueI's, that is some great work you are doing!

If I understand, out of 19 incidents you found that in 7 speed of the draw was a factor? (What kind of time period was this sample?)

How many civilians carry each day, how many of those will need to draw their weapon? Vs how many ND or AD take place?

A very small percentage of us will ever need to draw our weapon in a defensive action, of those it appears less than half will involve speed of draw.

Look up how many shots are fired accidentally every year. And most of those are reported because someone was killed or seriously injured.
Wonder how many near misses go unreported?

Looks to me like we would be much safer to plan for the carry and not for the draw.

If training was the only answer states that have mandatory classes would never have an incident.

I don't have to look it up. I know. 39 unintended discharges resulting in injury or death in Marion Co this year to date. Unless you plan to *never* load your weapon, few would be prevented by empty chamber carry. The majority of non-criminal adult unintentional discharges are failing to properly clear the gun before pulling the trigger to break it down for cleaning, resulting in hand or lower leg injury. The fatalities tend to be children finding guns or criminals posturing/posing with guns.

I suppose it's how you define "safe". The accidents from holstering that could be prevented by empty chamber carry are generally non-life threatening. I've yet to see someone dead from discharging a round as they holstered. I have seen people dead with a gun with an empty chamber in their hand.

Would you care to share your training and experience, since you brought it up early on?