Loud Music Trial

[churchmouse]

Posts seem to be "interesting" coming from me pretty often. I wasn't at the scene, so I can't determine the quality of sound equipment the kids had in that car. So, if their system was crap, I have no way of knowing.

I'm not tender in any way. I just have to embrace reality. The reality is, someone can see me printing or even if I OC, they can decide to shoot me out of fear and they would probably not be held accountable for their actions. If I'm riding my motorcycle and my CMA patch, they can probably say they thought I was a member of a gang and they feared for their life. This is the reality in which we live.

I really just wanted to make clear my post about the music. In INDY we are regularly assailed with way to much volume from way to little equipment by those who just want to express something that I am not aware of. They come in all colors and ethnicity's. Respect for those who do not share the desire to get a headache from said distorted music is none existent.
What I find amusing is the Polka based music the Hispanics like to listen to. An accordion at those volume levels is just silly.

I agree with the reality's we are now dealing with.

 

[hornadylnl]

I would be dead many times over. Never was a smart A$$ on a regular basis though. If I was approached in a rough manner I returned in kind. Call it what you will.

I'm sure the shooter first approached the kids with a "would you pretty please with sugar on top, turn your music down?"

There's a common theme in the youth bash posts around here. All kids are punks and they're looked down on with disdain and then the posters have the gall to wonder why kids won't kneel down and kiss their rings.

 

[churchmouse]

I'm sure the shooter first approached the kids with a "would you pretty please with sugar on top, turn your music down?"

There's a common theme in the youth bash posts around here. All kids are punks and they're looked down on with disdain and then the posters have the gall to wonder why kids won't kneel down and kiss their rings.

Too a point I see this. Living in the city I see the other side of this coin and yes, most of the kids that we have encounters with are punks. If they were a respectful group we probably would not have encounters with them. Just my own personal observations on the subject.
I know many really decent young folks. They have manners and are respectful of those around them. They seem to avoid these confrontations and roll through life.

 

[hornadylnl]

Too a point I see this. Living in the city I see the other side of this coin and yes, most of the kids that we have encounters with are punks. If they were a respectful group we probably would not have encounters with them. Just my own personal observations on the subject.
I know many really decent young folks. They have manners and are respectful of those around them. They seem to avoid these confrontations and roll through life.

Maybe they'll realize it's not their duty to police the world like the shooter in the OP.

 

[Que]

Regardless of the song or the system it was being played through, the guy murdered a kid and attempted to kill others, just because he could. There was no fear on his part and his life was not in danger. He shot them up and went to eat and it's as simple as that. Some members of the jury let him off because they probably saw themselves in his shoes. They probably wanted to tell a group of kids to turn their music down, but was afraid. They believed this guy did something brave and should not be found guilty of murder, when he stood up for "what was right" from their own perspective. They probably found solace in the fact that he would get 60 years from the attempted murder convictions. Not good enough in my book.

 

[LP1]

You are missing the point. I am not saying at all that it was ok. ANother example is trayvon would be alive if Zimmerman just simply did not follow him.

It is simply the case that basic manners on davis side would have saved his life. Common sense on DUnn side would have avoided it. yes people are disrespectful and no that does not give someone a right to do anything to them, but I would rather my child be alive than dead following the basic guideline I was taught to respect your elders. How hard would it have been to turn it down?

How hard would it have been for Dunn to pay for his gas and leave?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Let's see what I was doing at 17.

Driving a lifted 1975 Chevy Blazer. Like a complete arse. Probably drunk or buzzed if it was after work or a weekend. Hank Jr cassette (don't laugh, it was a step up from the AM/8-track in my LTD and top end tech for the day) up as loud as two amps could push the speakers. Windows down because no AC. I'd have probably thrown a beer can at anyone who told me to turn it down. Why? Because I was 17, had a full time job, and thought that's how a man acted and I desperately wanted to be seen as a man and not a boy.

Guess its a good thing I was in backwater Indiana and not in Florida. I might not have lived long enough to learn better.

 

[printcraft]

.....................
The kid was murdered (certainly second-degree), but the jury could not agree, which I cannot understand. They simply inferred that his actions met the elements for attempted murder, but he was not successful in actually murdering anyone. Yep, that certainly makes sense.

The prosecution went for Murder in the 1st. (Willful and premeditated) They did not prove that.

If they had went for Murder 2nd (non premeditated with the death of the victim a possibility) the jury probably would have convicted him.

 

[Kutnupe14]

The prosecution went for Murder in the 1st. (Willful and premeditated) They did not prove that.

If they had went for Murder 2nd (non premeditated with the death of the victim a possibility) the jury probably would have convicted him.

I think 2nd degree is still on the table.

 

[printcraft]

I think 2nd degree is still on the table.

After the mistrial, it should be.

 

[Que]

The prosecution went for Murder in the 1st. (Willful and premeditated) They did not prove that.

If they had went for Murder 2nd (non premeditated with the death of the victim a possibility) the jury probably would have convicted him.

Printcraft, I could probably agree with that, but even in this case, first-degree was proven. Premeditated or deliberation doesn't have a certain length of time attached. It's not like the guy had to go home and come back, as in another case in Florida. Also, intent and malice was certainly there, so I don't see the issue with finding him guilty of first-degree murder. Second-degree COULD have been a slam dunk, but I'm not even sure of that.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Does not have anything to do with the make up of prisons does it? I could be missing something.

No, it has something to do with the way prisoners segregate themselves into racist groups while in prison. Police are segregated, child offenders often too, people that commit crimes that are viewed as having a racial aspect are often in danger from other groups. Dunn should probably be segregated, or he'll have to take in with the Nazis or Bikers.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

The kid was murdered (certainly second-degree), but the jury could not agree, which I cannot understand. They simply inferred that his actions met the elements for attempted murder, but he was not successful in actually murdering anyone. Yep, that certainly makes sense.

While I agree that it wasn't most likely a justified shoot. I didn't hear all the testimony or see all the evidence so I can't state for certain it was murder 2nd degree or not. They could have found that the initial shots were justified and therefor he wasn't guilty of murder, but the 3 shots at the end when they were driving away were unjustified and met the criteria for attempted murder. That could also make sense for someone hearing all the evidence.

How hard would it have been for Dunn to pay for his gas and leave?

Well he could of just left, but he would have had to leave his girlfriend behind, she was in the store at the time.

The prosecution went for Murder in the 1st. (Willful and premeditated) They did not prove that.

If they had went for Murder 2nd (non premeditated with the death of the victim a possibility) the jury probably would have convicted him.

Yep a distinct possibility.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Does not have anything to do with the make up of prisons does it? I could be missing something.

While I agree that it wasn't most likely a justified shoot. I didn't hear all the testimony or see all the evidence so I can't state for certain it was murder 2nd degree or not. They could have found that the initial shots were justified and therefor he wasn't guilty of murder, but the 3 shots at the end when they were driving away were unjustified and met the criteria for attempted murder. That could also make sense for someone hearing all the evidence.



Well he could of just left, but he would have had to leave his girlfriend behind, she was in the store at the time.



Yep a distinct possibility.

The jury could've thought it was a justified shoot. Which would be absolutely amazing, based on the information I've seen.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Printcraft, I could probably agree with that, but even in this case, first-degree was proven. Premeditated or deliberation doesn't have a certain length of time attached. It's not like the guy had to go home and come back, as in another case in Florida. Also, intent and malice was certainly there, so I don't see the issue with finding him guilty of first-degree murder. Second-degree COULD have been a slam dunk, but I'm not even sure of that.

First degree murder is really tough to get. I've had people shot 10-14 times and it gets filed as battery with a deadly weapon instead of attempt murder because it doesn't require the proof of mindset. With him firing into a vehicle instead of at a specific person, I can see where it would be tough to get Murder.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

The prosecution went for Murder in the 1st. (Willful and premeditated) They did not prove that.

If they had went for Murder 2nd (non premeditated with the death of the victim a possibility) the jury probably would have convicted him.

That was what he was charged with, from this link they also included the lesser charges of 2nd degree and manslaughter of which the jury could have found him guilty of.
As in while he was not charged with that, the jurors could have still found him guilty of them and were informed of that fact. But they chose not to.
Loud Music Murder Trial | Closing Argument | Jury Verdict

I think 2nd degree is still on the table.

1st degree is still on the table. He wasn't found not guilty, it was a hung jury so they can retry him without double jeopardy being attached.

 

[Que]

While I agree that it wasn't most likely a justified shoot. I didn't hear all the testimony or see all the evidence so I can't state for certain it was murder 2nd degree or not. They could have found that the initial shots were justified and therefor he wasn't guilty of murder, but the 3 shots at the end when they were driving away were unjustified and met the criteria for attempted murder. That could also make sense for someone hearing all the evidence.

How could they have found the first five shots were justified and the following three were not? Also, where did you read that the kids were shot at while they were driving away?

 

[Kutnupe14]

First degree murder is really tough to get. I've had people shot 10-14 times and it gets filed as battery with a deadly weapon instead of attempt murder because it doesn't require the proof of mindset. With him firing into a vehicle instead of at a specific person, I can see where it would be tough to get Murder.

I thought 1st Degree was an overcharge too. But it's Angela Corey again, and she put that up. It's almost not a stretch to believe that she may be sabotaging her own cases.

 

[churchmouse]

How could they have found the first five shots were justified and the following three were not? Also, where did you read that the kids were shot at while they were driving away?

Q, I could not agree more that this whole deal was wrong from the 1st and so much could and should have been avoided. The music was merely the initial anger point for the shooter. Matters not what the song was. Matters only that a young man died and a family is in pain.
Could this have been avoided.....sure could have.

 

[Que]

Q, I could not agree more that this whole deal was wrong from the 1st and so much could and should have been avoided. The music was merely the initial anger point for the shooter. Matters not what the song was. Matters only that a young man died and a family is in pain.
Could this have been avoided.....sure could have.

The first anger point was something in that man's past of which none of us are aware. We can talk about the music all day, but the fact is, it was not the initiation of anything, but more of the straw that broke the camel's back.