Live Feed, Patriots at the Capitol

[buckwacker]

So you are of the belief you should access to any public building 24/7?

No

 

[Tombs]

Fairly sure that hallway lead to the evacuating members of congress.



Every other thread: "Stop breaking the law, its that easy."
This thread: "I find zero reason for why a person should be shot when they are in a mob, breaking into a government building, attacking police, all with the vice president, and members of congress inside"

You're really distorting what I was saying and you know it.

If lethal force was to be used in defense of the people inside, it should have been at the front door. Otherwise the locations people were kept should have been safe enough to not require shooting.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

What are you going to say when it gets real?

“Racism”

 

[KG1]

You're really distorting what I was saying and you know it.

If lethal force was to be used in defense of the people inside, it should have been at the front door. Otherwise the locations people were kept should have been safe enough to not require shooting.

Huh? So you're not disagreeing that some of them should've been shot? You just disagree on where they should've been shot?

In other words can we put you down as saying they never should've gotten that close to the VP and members of congress before they got shot? if so then it would appear that you agree with the people you're arguing with that felt the shooting of Ashli Babbitt was justified it's just that it should've taken place sooner. Right?

I'm just trying to figure out what you're getting at here.

 

[JettaKnight]

I'm just trying to figure out what you're getting at here.

What I've gathered from this thread is, she shouldn't have been shot because (A) she's part of our group, and (B) the "government" isn't shooting enough people who aren't in my group.

The first part is inferred of course, the but the second is widely backed up by repeated post about Portland, BLM, etc.
If it was "different", the chorus would be singing, "Do what the officer tells thee!"


That's about as far as I want to venture into these treacherous waters today.

 

[Ingomike]

The right has been “willing,” to do..... nothing. They’ve talked the game, but don’t do nada (DN for emphasis). Look at it rationally. They believe a non-citizen was elected president, the election was stolen, GOV.com is targeting conservative groups, thousands of children being killed, the leftists rioting unopposed in the streets, police unjustifiably being sent to jail, schools teaching liberal thought, sending money to enemies so they can create weapons to distort us, Socialism gaining traction.... and what do they do to combat this “America is lost,” mantra? ....complain on the internet. The left has proven itself FAR more willing to take up issues, and put their money where there mouth is. I’m not saying I agree with what they do, but comparatively, while they do their work, the right just says “just wait until....” Rinse repeat.

Essentially, it a never ending retraction of red lines.

"George Soros has proven itself FAR more willing to take up issues, and put their money where there mouth is."

Fixed it to be more accurate. Just saw an ad recruiting paid protesters for AZ audit because the left is soo upset about the truth coming out.

The left always exploits the ignorance of youth, and some just never outgrow it...

 

[nonobaddog]

It is really pretty simple, nobody should have been shot. One little weenie panicked and couldn't hold his water and murdered Ashli Babbitt.

 

[JettaKnight]

It is really pretty simple, nobody should have been shot. One little weenie panicked and couldn't hold his water and murdered Ashli Babbitt.

We should eliminate the Capitol police, or at least replace their guns with walkie talkies.

 

[Ingomike]

I'll give JK props for being consistent. He always minimizes the lefts actions and has ready made excuses for them and holds conservatives to the worst. Congratulations!

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Yes, flatly.

If you deserve the death penalty for entering the capitol, shots should have been fired upon breaching the doors.
Deciding that one hallway is now death sentence worthy is not acceptable, after sacrificing that much ground.

I'll compare the Capitol to my house and yard. Someone steps off the sidewalk into my yard, I'm probably not going to shoot, they walk halfway to my house, probably not going to shoot, they get to my door, probably not going to shoot, they start beating on my door, again probably not going to shoot, they kick in my door well...

 

[buckwacker]

I'll give JK props for being consistent. He always minimizes the lefts actions and has ready made excuses for them and holds conservatives to the worst. Congratulations!

Just seems odd for someone who claims to lean right.

 

[BugI02]

So you are of the belief you should access to any public building 24/7?

No, I am of the belief that if it is wrong to use lethal force on 'protestors' who are attempting to burn LEOs alive in buildings they are defending or blind them with high powered lasers, then it should be wrong to use lethal force on unarmed protestors not doing so just because they breached an arbitrary perimeter

One law for everybody. Either lethal force should be the last possible resort in every situation or the RoE should be clearly defined and police should just start dropping ALL of the 'protestors' who are a existential threat to ANY people, ANYWHERE. The life of a representative is no more important than any other life. Two standards of 'justice' ==> vigilantism

 

[JettaKnight]

No, I am of the belief that if it is wrong to use lethal force on 'protestors' who are attempting to burn LEOs alive in buildings they are defending or blind them with high powered lasers, then it should be wrong to use lethal force on unarmed protestors not doing so just because they breached an arbitrary perimeter

One law for everybody. Either lethal force should be the last possible resort in every situation or the RoE should be clearly defined and police should just start dropping ALL of the 'protestors' who are a existential threat to ANY people, ANYWHERE. The life of a representative is no more important than any other life. Two standards of 'justice' ==> vigilantism

That seems perfectly reasonable.

But I'm not just going to say, "it's a bad shoot", because Portland PD does something different.


Or to take it back to the homeowner analogy, is Bug in the wrong because he shot a home invader, when Jetta didn't?

 

[BugI02]

Someone compared this to the garage thread...

That was brought up by way of comparison. It was about how carefully we have to parse our actions to make sure the imagined 'rights' of the home invader are not in any way 'infringed' and they have to be given every chance to flee with some loot (and perhaps return later to finish the job) if it means they don't get shot ... and we are not professionals steeped in the legal minutae

The desired comparison being, why would it be that professional LEO, theoretically well versed in said minute, can kill someone with impunity, long before that was the last available action, and there is not even a revue or a trial

You know damn well if that had been a BLM protestor, inside that building in near exactly the same circumstances, and they got stumped, we still would not have heard the end of it. The officer would have been doxxed the next day and would be up on charges before a kangaroo court while enduring a simultaneous 'trial' in the court of public opinion

It's fashionable to push a perception that the lives of 13.4% of Americans are worth less than others, with the attendant rioting, looting, burning and violence being an understandable result

What do you expect if you send the same message to 70% of Americans?

"War, children - it's just a shot away. It's just a shot away" - Rolling Stones, Gimme Shelter

You can keep acting like you don't ever expect ordinary people to take a stand, but what if you're wrong? What's Plan B, there, George3

I won't play Tutsi to someones Hutu

 

[BugI02]

The right has been “willing,” to do..... nothing. They’ve talked the game, but don’t do nada (DN for emphasis). Look at it rationally. They believe a non-citizen was elected president, the election was stolen, GOV.com is targeting conservative groups, thousands of children being killed, the leftists rioting unopposed in the streets, police unjustifiably being sent to jail, schools teaching liberal thought, sending money to enemies so they can create weapons to distort us, Socialism gaining traction.... and what do they do to combat this “America is lost,” mantra? ....complain on the internet. The left has proven itself FAR more willing to take up issues, and put their money where there mouth is. I’m not saying I agree with what they do, but comparatively, while they do their work, the right just says “just wait until....” Rinse repeat.

Essentially, it a never ending retraction of red lines.

As I've stated before, I believe people will not rise up until conflict becomes inevitable. Killing us indiscriminately would fill the bill. One of us is wrong, and I believe we will see who quite a bit sooner than you believe

 

[BugI02]

Or to take it back to the homeowner analogy, is Bug in the wrong because he shot a home invader, when Jetta didn't?

Depends on who funded the prosecutors election campaign, not the facts of the case, unfortunately

That's the problem

 

[JettaKnight]

You know damn well if that had been a BLM protestor, inside that building in near exactly the same circumstances, and they got stumped, we still would not have heard the end of it. The officer would have been doxxed the next day and would be up on charges before a kangaroo court while enduring a simultaneous 'trial' in the court of public opinion

And you know damn well that if that was the case, you'd be saying the shot rioter shouldn't have been there and it was her own fault.

Just admit you can't look at the situation impassionately, Bug.


A use of force isn't (or shouldn't) determined right or wrong based on public outcry. Especially when it's obvious that the people with pitchforks are almost exclusively made up of members of the stumped (to borrow a term) person's tribe.

Furthermore, a use of force isn't (or shouldn't) determined right or wrong based on what happened in a similar situation in a city on the other side of the country.


At least admit you're aligned with BLM's theory - both of you are claiming that use of lethal force is not applied fairly.

 

[BugI02]

What I've gathered from this thread is, she shouldn't have been shot because (A) she's part of our group, and (B) the "government" isn't shooting enough people who aren't in my group.

The first part is inferred of course, the but the second is widely backed up by repeated post about Portland, BLM, etc.
If it was "different", the chorus would be singing, "Do what the officer tells thee!"


That's about as far as I want to venture into these treacherous waters today.

Just what did the officer 'tell her'? Was she under arrest? Was she resisting that officer taking her into custody? Was she told 'If you attempt to enter this room you will be shot'? Was she warned in any way?

I think not. Compare that to how many warnings and chances to comply Jacob Blake received, while being visibly armed, in contrast to Ashli

The best interpretation that can be made is that someone considered a LEO, but who probably should be a meter maid, pissed his pants at the first real threat he had ever encountered in what he thought was a sinecure and shot someone unnecessarily - and the need to prop up the narrative that Jan 6 was a dangerous insurrection is getting in the way of him being held responsible for it

I don't see much difference between the murder of Ashli Babbit and the murder of Vicki Weaver. Supposedly skilled and trained individuals make bad decisions and are protected by the system, which is heavily invested in one particular narrative

 

[Kutnupe14]

"George Soros has proven itself FAR more willing to take up issues, and put their money where there mouth is."

Fixed it to be more accurate. Just saw an ad recruiting paid protesters for AZ audit because the left is soo upset about the truth coming out.

The left always exploits the ignorance of youth, and some just never outgrow it...

No, I am of the belief that if it is wrong to use lethal force on 'protestors' who are attempting to burn LEOs alive in buildings they are defending or blind them with high powered lasers, then it should be wrong to use lethal force on unarmed protestors not doing so just because they breached an arbitrary perimeter

One law for everybody. Either lethal force should be the last possible resort in every situation or the RoE should be clearly defined and police should just start dropping ALL of the 'protestors' who are a existential threat to ANY people, ANYWHERE. The life of a representative is no more important than any other life. Two standards of 'justice' ==> vigilantism

You’ve never heard me say that using lethal force on protesters trying to burn officers alive is wrong; have you?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Just what did the officer 'tell her'? Was she under arrest? Was she resisting that officer taking her into custody? Was she told 'If you attempt to enter this room you will be shot'? Was she warned in any way?

I think not. Compare that to how many warnings and chances to comply Jacob Blake received, while being visibly armed, in contrast to Ashli

The best interpretation that can be made is that someone considered a LEO, but who probably should be a meter maid, pissed his pants at the first real threat he had ever encountered in what he thought was a sinecure and shot someone unnecessarily - and the need to prop up the narrative that Jan 6 was a dangerous insurrection is getting in the way of him being held responsible for it

I don't see much difference between the murder of Ashli Babbit and the murder of Vicki Weaver. Supposedly skilled and trained individuals make bad decisions and are protected by the system, which is heavily invested in one particular narrative

You make it should like she was jumping through the window so she could be placed into custody.