Live Feed, Patriots at the Capitol

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Status
    Not open for further replies.

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,517
    113
    Fort Wayne
    Just what did the officer 'tell her'? Was she under arrest? Was she resisting that officer taking her into custody? Was she told 'If you attempt to enter this room you will be shot'? Was she warned in any way?

    I think not. Compare that to how many warnings and chances to comply Jacob Blake received, while being visibly armed, in contrast to Ashli

    The best interpretation that can be made is that someone considered a LEO, but who probably should be a meter maid, pissed his pants at the first real threat he had ever encountered in what he thought was a sinecure and shot someone unnecessarily - and the need to prop up the narrative that Jan 6 was a dangerous insurrection is getting in the way of him being held responsible for it

    I don't see much difference between the murder of Ashli Babbit and the murder of Vicki Weaver. Supposedly skilled and trained individuals make bad decisions and are protected by the system, which is heavily invested in one particular narrative
    Those are some think rose lens you've got in that spaceman helmet, Bug.

    A woman holding a shot in her doorway by sniper vs. the front of an angry charging into the Capitol. "You can do better than that", Bug.

    Next thing you'll be trying to say is see just had to pee and was looking for the ladies' room, and all the people there on the 6th just wanted to sit and have a cup of tea with their congressman. The zip ties and crash helmets and tacticool vest were... what, filled with tea bags?
     

    BugI02

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 4, 2013
    31,896
    149
    Columbus, OH
    Next thing you'll be trying to say is see just had to pee and was looking for the ladies' room, and all the people there on the 6th just wanted to sit and have a cup of tea with their congressman. The zip ties and crash helmets and tacticool vest were... what, filled with tea bags?
    Are you out of the loop? I believe the zip tie handcuffs were proven (via video footage) to have been acquired from inside the capitol building, not brought along in accordance with some evil plan. I believe you could find similar items on any aircraft flying today, and for the same reasons - it might be necessary to control someone who is unruly. I think they have to try that sort of thing before the sky marshall can shoot you in the neck

    As to why anyone would want to wear a tacticool vest, that is an area of craziness I don't feel competent to delve into. 5.11 clothing, too
     

    jamil

    code ho
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 17, 2011
    60,169
    113
    Gtown-ish
    Fairly sure that hallway lead to the evacuating members of congress.



    Every other thread: "Stop breaking the law, its that easy."
    This thread: "I find zero reason for why a person should be shot when they are in a mob, breaking into a government building, attacking police, all with the vice president, and members of congress inside"

    A while back someone insisted that the root cause of Floyd’s death was the illegal actions he took and that he alone bore the responsibility for his own death.

    So. Are we all going to be consistent? If one thinks that about Floyd, shouldn’t that also apply to someone breaking the law by entering the Capitol illegally? If it’s all Floyd’s fault is it not all her fault too?

    And there’s another side to that as well. I’m of the mind that it wasn’t all Floyd’s fault, that Chauvin played a part, the crowd played a part, the other officers played a part. Floyd was not entirely responsible for his own death, and the woman’s who was shot at the Capitol, was not entirely responsible for her own death. The officer, the other people breaking in, even the circumstances that caused the insurrection in the first place, all had at least a little responsibility in it.
     
    Last edited:

    nonobaddog

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 10, 2015
    11,794
    113
    Tropical Minnesota
    A while back someone insisted that the root cause of Floyd’s death was the illegal actions he took and that he alone bore the responsibility for his own death.

    So. Are we all going to be consistent? If one thinks that about Floyd, shouldn’t that also apply to someone breaking the law by entering the Capitol illegally? If it’s all Floyd’s fault is it not all he fault?

    And there’s another side to that as well. I’m of the mind that it wasn’t all Floyd’s fault, that Chauvin played a part, the crowd played a part, the other officers played a part. Floyd was not entirely responsible for his own death, and the woman’s who was shot at the Capitol, was not entirely responsible for her own death. The officer, the other people breaking in, even the circumstances that caused the insurrection in the first place, all had at least a little responsibility in it.

    A little responsibility?
    Does that mean like second-degree murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter?
     

    jamil

    code ho
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 17, 2011
    60,169
    113
    Gtown-ish
    tenor.gif



    What I've gathered from this thread is, she shouldn't have been shot because (A) she's part of our group, and (B) the "government" isn't shooting enough people who aren't in my group.

    The first part is inferred of course, the but the second is widely backed up by repeated post about Portland, BLM, etc.
    If it was "different", the chorus would be singing, "Do what the officer tells thee!"


    That's about as far as I want to venture into these treacherous waters today.
    I mean, at least arrest some people. Okay? Can we do that. Mother****ers burn property, get arrested, and are just let go. How about applying justice symmetrically. Can we just do that?

    I’m not saying police should get to shoot Antifa. But those people are committing real ass crimes. They should at least stay arrested and go through the due process. Let’s not be so eager to point out INGO’s hypocrisy that we forget the realities on the other side too.
     
    Last edited:

    KG1

    Forgotten Man
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    66   0   0
    Jan 20, 2009
    25,633
    149
    I mean, at least arrest some people. Okay? Can we do that. Mother****ers burn property and and are just let go. Cops arrest them. Prosecutors let them go. How about applying justice symmetrically. Can we do that?

    I’m not saying police should get to shoot Antifa. But those people are committing real ass crimes. They should at least stay arrested and go through the due process. Let’s not be so eager to point out INGO’s hypocrisy that we forget the realities on the other side too.
    Might wanna edit your post. The no-no word is showing.
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,517
    113
    Fort Wayne
    I mean, at least arrest some people. Okay? Can we do that. Mother****ers burn property, get arrested, and are just let go. How about applying justice symmetrically. Can we just do that?

    I’m not saying police should get to shoot Antifa. But those people are committing real ass crimes. They should at least stay arrested and go through the due process. Let’s not be so eager to point out INGO’s hypocrisy that we forget the realities on the other side too.
    Can't say I disagree - that Louisville video is pretty frightening.
     

    IndyDave1776

    Grandmaster
    Emeritus
    Rating - 100%
    12   0   0
    Jan 12, 2012
    27,286
    113
    A while back someone insisted that the root cause of Floyd’s death was the illegal actions he took and that he alone bore the responsibility for his own death.

    So. Are we all going to be consistent? If one thinks that about Floyd, shouldn’t that also apply to someone breaking the law by entering the Capitol illegally? If it’s all Floyd’s fault is it not all he fault?

    And there’s another side to that as well. I’m of the mind that it wasn’t all Floyd’s fault, that Chauvin played a part, the crowd played a part, the other officers played a part. Floyd was not entirely responsible for his own death, and the woman’s who was shot at the Capitol, was not entirely responsible for her own death. The officer, the other people breaking in, even the circumstances that caused the insurrection in the first place, all had at least a little responsibility in it.
    Consistent? The illegal act I see precipitating Floyd's death was taking more then enough drugs to cause exactly what happened and throwing out a bunch of red herrings.
     

    jamil

    code ho
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 17, 2011
    60,169
    113
    Gtown-ish
    Consistent? The illegal act I see precipitating Floyd's death was taking more then enough drugs to cause exactly what happened and throwing out a bunch of red herrings.
    It's not clear that the drugs killed Floyd. It's clear that the woman who was shot was in a place she didn't belong. People broke into the Capitol for ****sake, the people in the Capitol had a reason to be afraid. They did not know what the mob was going to do. I think the cop was hastey. Like I said, he bears some responsibility in her death too. Painful as it may be that consistency thing is bidirectional.
     

    IndyDave1776

    Grandmaster
    Emeritus
    Rating - 100%
    12   0   0
    Jan 12, 2012
    27,286
    113
    It's not clear that the drugs killed Floyd. It's clear that the woman who was shot was in a place she didn't belong. People broke into the Capitol for ****sake, the people in the Capitol had a reason to be afraid. They did not know what the mob was going to do. I think the cop was hastey. Like I said, he bears some responsibility in her death too. Painful as it may be that consistency thing is bidirectional.
    Broke in with the ****ing cops holding the door for them. Consistency would have been the first cop walking over to Floyd's car and putting a bullet in him.
     

    KLB

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Sep 12, 2011
    23,013
    77
    Porter County
    It's not clear that the drugs killed Floyd. It's clear that the woman who was shot was in a place she didn't belong. People broke into the Capitol for ****sake, the people in the Capitol had a reason to be afraid. They did not know what the mob was going to do. I think the cop was hastey. Like I said, he bears some responsibility in her death too. Painful as it may be that consistency thing is bidirectional.
    She committed a misdemeanor. Since when is death a penalty for that?

    How many of the other officers were so in fear that they thought it was a good idea to shoot people? How many others thought it necessary to shoot her?
     

    jamil

    code ho
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 17, 2011
    60,169
    113
    Gtown-ish
    Broke in with the ****ing cops holding the door for them. Consistency would have been the first cop walking over to Floyd's car and putting a bullet in him.
    Some cops did seem to be holding the doors at at least one point of entry. That's not the case everywhere. They broke the **** in. People found ways in and other people followed. They're all culpable for at least that part.

    There are a lot of things that seem out of sorts with the whole event. I'm not sure we'll ever know the whole story. But here is a fact. It was illegal to enter that building the way they did. Period. Full stop. If she didn't know she was in the wrong for doing what she did, then that's just another vector of responsibility that falls on her for a total lack of awareness. Would you have just walked in there? And remember. She was in the leading group getting into the building. So it's not like some cop said, "hey, pssst, this way, c'mon in."

    If you can't see that she's at least a little responsible for breaking the law and putting herself into that position, you have to ask yourself if you're seeing everything as it is. There is no justification for her being there in that place at that time. We can talk about the officer's part in that as well.
     

    jamil

    code ho
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 17, 2011
    60,169
    113
    Gtown-ish
    Yes, and at that point she would not be in a position to be able to resist arrest.
    She eagerly entered the building illegally. And then she went with the crowd to the chamber doors, and when they breached, her face was the first through the door. You can't possibly think that was all passive. It was as intentionally accomplished as one could get. It sucks when someone on your team is in the wrong. It is what it is. Admit it for what it is and move on.
     

    IndyDave1776

    Grandmaster
    Emeritus
    Rating - 100%
    12   0   0
    Jan 12, 2012
    27,286
    113
    Some cops did seem to be holding the doors at at least one point of entry. That's not the case everywhere. They broke the **** in. People found ways in and other people followed. They're all culpable for at least that part.

    There are a lot of things that seem out of sorts with the whole event. I'm not sure we'll ever know the whole story. But here is a fact. It was illegal to enter that building the way they did. Period. Full stop. If she didn't know she was in the wrong for doing what she did, then that's just another vector of responsibility that falls on her for a total lack of awareness. Would you have just walked in there? And remember. She was in the leading group getting into the building. So it's not like some cop said, "hey, pssst, this way, c'mon in."

    If you can't see that she's at least a little responsible for breaking the law and putting herself into that position, you have to ask yourself if you're seeing everything as it is. There is no justification for her being there in that place at that time. We can talk about the officer's part in that as well.
    I see responsibility for unlawful entry or similar charges, not summary execution.
     

    jamil

    code ho
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 17, 2011
    60,169
    113
    Gtown-ish
    I see responsibility for unlawful entry or similar charges, not summary execution.
    We could say that about Antifa/BLM. Sometimes people get carried away with comments about what should happen to these Antifa and BLM rioters/looters, and I'm about as inclined as anyone to spout off about that because it pisses me off. If someone shoots one of them while in the act, is that any less summary execution? Personally, as I've said, I think that cop was hasty. Was it a justifiable shoot? I dunno. It's pretty close either way. I can see why no charges were brought though. It doesn't make it any more "murder" just because it happened to someone on your team.

    I don't like it either. I'd much rather side with the side I tend to agree with more. That's the cost of constancy. I mean. You can just say **** it, like some others seem to have. And just say, fine. It's okay for mine to break the law fighting for what they think is injustice, but it's not okay for yours. You can say, you're on the right side. Well. They say the same thing.
     
    Status
    Not open for further replies.
    Top Bottom