Legit AD on a Holstered SIG 320 on video

[Creedmoor]

Agreed. First report I've seen after the weapons have been issued and used for a while.

Yes, Good post. Thanks

 

[Destro]

Based on my experience with those types of holsters, I'm going to need a little more from Sig on their initial explanation.

I don't see how you could put a weapon in a Safariland 7300 in a manner, even if not fully seated, that would create the conditions to expect this. The trigger guard would need to clear the highest point on the holster to even stay upright in the holster, even not fully seated, At that point, there is nothing in the holster that, IME, could cause that.

The decision to send the weapon back to Sig is not a decision for the agency to make.

 

[DadSmith]

So in essence a Service Bulletin.

Well, that appears to be a breakage issue after 5-6000 rounds of +P NATO 9mm ammo.
It says It CAN be unsafe if dropped with these broken parts.

I would say most of the 320 pistols in the world will never see 5-6000 rounds through them, much less with 5-6000 rds of +P ammo through them.

Ruger American 9mm
Performance tested for sustained +P ammunition use.

Guess the military didn't take that into account.

 

[Creedmoor]

Ruger American 9mm
Performance tested for sustained +P ammunition use.

Guess the military didn't take that into account.

Ruger says nothing about sustained +P use in its American web page video?

Ruger American® Pistol Duty

ruger.com

The Military has done this before.

SIG SAUER M18 Sets New Standard for U.S. Army’s Modular Handgun System (MHS) Reliability Testing

SIG M18, the compact variant of the U.S. Army’s Modular Handgun System (MHS) completes LAT with zero stoppages for required MHS Material Reliability Testing.

www.sigsauer.com

Historically, Lot Acceptance Testing would include testing handguns to 5,000 rounds and allow for up to 12 stoppages to pass. The recent MHS Material Reliability Test consisted of firing three M18 pistols to an unprecedented 12,000 rounds each, and in an extraordinary display of reliability, the M18 performed with zero stoppages. Additionally, despite undergoing this level of strenuous testing the M18 passed a parts interchange test, met all of the stringent accuracy and dispersion requirements, was tested for firing pin indent and trigger pull measurements to ensure consistency, and conformed to all workmanship standards.

The success of the MHS program, and the performance of both the M17 and M18 pistols, was further confirmed in the recently published Director of Operation Testing and Evaluation (DOT&E) Annual Report, which provides an independent review and analysis of the U.S. Department of Defense weapons systems. The report states that, “the MHS meets or exceeds requirements for accuracy, lethality, ergonomics, and safety,” in addition to stating that, “both the XM17 and the XM18 are operationally effective and suitable.”

 

[DadSmith]

Ruger says nothing about sustained +P use in its American web page video?

Ruger American® Pistol Duty

ruger.com

The Military has done this before.

SIG SAUER M18 Sets New Standard for U.S. Army’s Modular Handgun System (MHS) Reliability Testing

SIG M18, the compact variant of the U.S. Army’s Modular Handgun System (MHS) completes LAT with zero stoppages for required MHS Material Reliability Testing.

www.sigsauer.com

Historically, Lot Acceptance Testing would include testing handguns to 5,000 rounds and allow for up to 12 stoppages to pass. The recent MHS Material Reliability Test consisted of firing three M18 pistols to an unprecedented 12,000 rounds each, and in an extraordinary display of reliability, the M18 performed with zero stoppages. Additionally, despite undergoing this level of strenuous testing the M18 passed a parts interchange test, met all of the stringent accuracy and dispersion requirements, was tested for firing pin indent and trigger pull measurements to ensure consistency, and conformed to all workmanship standards.

The success of the MHS program, and the performance of both the M17 and M18 pistols, was further confirmed in the recently published Director of Operation Testing and Evaluation (DOT&E) Annual Report, which provides an independent review and analysis of the U.S. Department of Defense weapons systems. The report states that, “the MHS meets or exceeds requirements for accuracy, lethality, ergonomics, and safety,” in addition to stating that, “both the XM17 and the XM18 are operationally effective and suitable.”

It sure does right on the main site.




That contest was who greased who's hands to see who got the contract.

 

[92FSTech]

Even if Ruger's claim was determined to be accurate under objective and measurable testing, I'd still be pissed if you took away my P320 and made me carry a Ruger American!

There's a lot more to selecting a weapon than just how many +p rounds it can consume.

 

[Creedmoor]

It sure does right on the main site.

View attachment 290809


That contest was who greased who's hands to see who got the contract.

Thats an easy thing to say, What I'm looking for is,
Whats the explanation for being Performance tested and what to them is sustained use?
All Rugers are workhorses and always have been.

Funny thing I found while looking at what companies submitted handguns for the military test.

Competitors​

Twelve pistols were entered into the competition:

• : Beretta APX chambered in 9mm NATO and .40 S&W.
• : CZ P-07 MHS and P-09 MHS chambered in 9 mm NATO and .40 S&W.
• : FN Herstal FN FNS variant, from which the FN 509 Tactical was developed.
• : Glock 17 MHS and 19 MHS chambered in 9 mm NATO, and the Glock 22 MHS and 23 MHS chambered in .40 S&W, respectively.
• : KRISS USA Sphinx SDP variant chambered in 9mm NATO.
• : SIG Sauer P320 MHS, a variant of the P320.
• : Smith & Wesson M&P M2.0; in co-operation with General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems.
• : STI and Detonics Defense STX.

Sturm, Ruger & Co. designed a pistol series, the Ruger American Pistol, based on the specifications of the MHS, but ultimately declined to formally submit any variant of it for consideration.

Like on Sigs website, we passed the 5,000 rd test and then they took 3 M18's and ran them to 12,000 rds with zero failures.

 

[Creedmoor]

Even if Ruger's claim was determined to be accurate under objective and measurable testing, I'd still be pissed if you took away my P320 and made me carry a Ruger American!

There's a lot more to selecting a weapon than just how many +p rounds it can consume.

Thats right, never dance with ugly women!!!

 

[Peacekeeper3073]

It sure does right on the main site.

View attachment 290809


That contest was who greased who's hands to see who got the contract.

Big factor right there

 

[Peacekeeper3073]

Thats an easy thing to say, What I'm looking for is,
Whats the explanation for being Performance tested and what to them is sustained use?
All Rugers are workhorses and always have been.

Funny thing I found while looking at what companies submitted handguns for the military test.

Competitors​

Twelve pistols were entered into the competition:

• : Beretta APX chambered in 9mm NATO and .40 S&W.
• : CZ P-07 MHS and P-09 MHS chambered in 9 mm NATO and .40 S&W.
• : FN Herstal FN FNS variant, from which the FN 509 Tactical was developed.
• : Glock 17 MHS and 19 MHS chambered in 9 mm NATO, and the Glock 22 MHS and 23 MHS chambered in .40 S&W, respectively.
• : KRISS USA Sphinx SDP variant chambered in 9mm NATO.
• : SIG Sauer P320 MHS, a variant of the P320.
• : Smith & Wesson M&P M2.0; in co-operation with General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems.
• : STI and Detonics Defense STX.

Sturm, Ruger & Co. designed a pistol series, the Ruger American Pistol, based on the specifications of the MHS, but ultimately declined to formally submit any variant of it for consideration.

Like on Sigs website, we passed the 5,000 rd test and then they took 3 M18's and ran them to 12,000 rds with zero failures.

And why just the three Sigs ? There are a few on that list that could do the same if given the chance. Also on the list above it shows four different Glocks. According to all reports there were only two models, the 19MHS (later civilian 19X) and the 23MHS in 40 cal. Pics below.

 

[Goodcat]

Crazy. He didn't touch it. I'm skeptical of my P365 now (different platform I know, but still).

Don’t be at all. This is limited to the p320 platform, not sigs in general.

 

[Route 45]

Interesting that some 40 S&W pistols were submitted to the MHS competition. Imagine the internet entertainment value if the US military switched to 40 S&W and renamed it 10mm NATO.

 

[Peacekeeper3073]

Interesting that some 40 S&W pistols were submitted to the MHS competition. Imagine the internet entertainment value if the US military switched to 40 S&W and renamed it 10mm NATO.

Interesting for sure. What would all the 40 haters do ?

 

[Route 45]

Interesting for sure. What would all the 40 haters do ?

 

[ditcherman]

View attachment 290883

You’ve been saving that meme for just the right moment haven’t you?

 

[Creedmoor]

And why just the three Sigs ? There are a few on that list that could do the same if given the chance. Also on the list above it shows four different Glocks. According to all reports there were only two models, the 19MHS (later civilian 19X) and the 23MHS in 40 cal. Pics below.

View attachment 290840





View attachment 290839

I would say, the others had to many failures at the 5,000 round make.
The Fat Lady had Sung with the rest.

 

[Peacekeeper3073]

And why just the three Sigs ? There are a few on that list that could do the same if given the chance. Also on the list above it shows four different Glocks. According to all reports there were only two models, the 19MHS (later civilian 19X) and the 23MHS in 40 cal. Pics below.

View attachment 290840





View attachment 290839

I would say, the others had to many failures at the 5,000 round make.
The Fat Lady had Sung with the rest.

Man I don’t know about that. Carried and used Glocks for years including armor for several years. 5000 rounds usually doesn’t have a major effect on a Glock. Have some M&P’s in the stable now too. The M 2.0 series is built pretty tough too and very dependable. A lot don’t realize they were built around the 40 caliber so they can take a lot of 9mm +p. We will never know the real reasons but I truly think money had a lot to do with it.

 

[Creedmoor]

I would say they only ran three Sigs is the other companies pistols failed out.
Is there a reason to run more than three for the next 7,000 rounds each?

 

[cedartop]

 

[92FSTech]

Crazy. He didn't touch it. I'm skeptical of my P365 now (different platform I know, but still).

Don’t be at all. This is limited to the p320 platform, not sigs in general

This always amuses me a little bit. The 320 and 365 are indeed different guns, and don't share parts, but the cycle of operations and theory behind their design is pretty much exactly the same. Both have a fully-cocked striker and discharge by simply dropping the sear from the striker hook via a pull of the trigger. Neither has a trigger safety. For all intents and purposes, the P365 is basically a miniaturized P320...Sig basically found a way to take the design logic behind the 320 and fit it into a smaller package.

In spite of that, I rarely hear anyone say anything negative about the safety of the P365. In fact, I hear people say all the time that they pocket carry it. Many of those same people will vehemently denounce the P320 as unsafe...yet nobody can specifically identify WHY the 320 is dangerous while the 365 is not.