Legit AD on a Holstered SIG 320 on video

[cbhausen]

Gotta wonder with that Glock Perfection now on Gen 5, why they haven't gotten rid of that
"Pull the Trigger" before disassembly thing.

I don’t care who makes it, if it’s a semi auto, I’m dropping the mag and racking the slide anyway before field stripping. After that, pulling the trigger is anti-climactic.

 

[92FSTech]

SIG SAUER Issues a Statement Regarding Video of a Montville, CT Police Officer's P320 Discharge - The Truth About Guns

&#9664Previous Post Next Post▶ We’ve extensively covered the hysteria surrounding lawsuits claiming that the SIG SAUER P320 pistol is prone to “uncommanded discharges” (see our posts here and here). When you look into the details of what’s been claimed and what actually happened in a great many...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

Interesting analysis, and it does appear that the gun was indeed improperly holstered from the freeze-frame photos. Dumb that the PD refused to allow Sig to investigate the incident. If you really believe there's a problem with the gun, having the people that built it examine it would seem to be the most likely avenue to identifying and resolving the problem.

 

[Creedmoor]

I don’t care who makes it, if it’s a semi auto, I’m dropping the mag and racking the slide anyway before field stripping. After that, pulling the trigger is anti-climactic.

I get it, but yet so many with the pistols that have that feature, can't seem to do that.

 

[Creedmoor]

Interesting analysis, and it does appear that the gun was indeed improperly holstered from the freeze-frame photos. Dumb that the PD refused to allow Sig to investigate the incident. If you really believe there's a problem with the gun, having the people that built it examine it would seem to be the most likely avenue to identifying and resolving the problem.

I would bet that Billion dollar lawsuit came to a screeching halt.

 

[sheepdog697]

Hard pass on that...

 

[wcd]

Interesting analysis, and it does appear that the gun was indeed improperly holstered from the freeze-frame photos. Dumb that the PD refused to allow Sig to investigate the incident. If you really believe there's a problem with the gun, having the people that built it examine it would seem to be the most likely avenue to identifying and resolving the problem.

Simple explanation, Had they let Sig examine it, their narrative goes out the window. Now they can maintain it was a design defect that led to the discharge.

 

[ECS686]

Simple explanation, Had they let Sig examine it, their narrative goes out the window. Now they can maintain it was a design defect that led to the discharge.

It would be nice if a neutral independent lab could do an investigation. No one from the PD or SIG or any competing company

 

[bwframe]

Gotta wonder with that Glock Perfection now on Gen 5, why they haven't gotten rid of that
"Pull the Trigger" before disassembly thing.

It's only really a "thing" to the Glock haters.

You know, the guys who keep saying "but Glock" in discussions about dangerous mechanical flaws of their chosen pistol?

 

[Route 45]

It's only really a "thing" to the Glock haters.

You know, the guys who keep saying "but Glock" in discussions about dangerous mechanical flaws of their chosen pistol?

What dangerous mechanical flaws?

Show your work...

 

[DadSmith]

Interesting analysis, and it does appear that the gun was indeed improperly holstered from the freeze-frame photos. Dumb that the PD refused to allow Sig to investigate the incident. If you really believe there's a problem with the gun, having the people that built it examine it would seem to be the most likely avenue to identifying and resolving the problem.

So Sig is saying the trigger was exposed at the time of contact with the other officer, and it got pressed?
The retention hood does it automatically close when in the holster properly? Or can one holster it, and leave it off?

 

[92FSTech]

So Sig is saying the trigger was exposed at the time of contact with the other officer, and it got pressed?
The retention hood does it automatically close when in the holster properly? Or can one holster it, and leave it off?

Correct. I don't know what holster it was, but I've not seen one that automatically closes the hood. On my Safariland 6360, the hood must be manually closed after the gun is locked into the holster.

 

[ECS686]

Correct. I don't know what holster it was, but I've not seen one that automatically closes the hood. On my Safariland 6360, the hood must be manually closed after the gun is locked into the holster.

A lot of the Safariland have the ALS that automatically secures the gun so hood open or not would not matter so just at a glance the good was up isn’t an absolute.

I want to like the 320 (have carried Sig P series for 29 years and love my 226 Legion) and while there is no doubt a lot is issues were the users fault I’m just not so sure about this last one. And with the Department apparently not allowing anyone to look at the holster and specific 320 the world may never know

 

[92FSTech]

A lot of the Safariland have the ALS that automatically secures the gun so hood open or not would not matter so just at a glance the good was up isn’t an absolute

Yes, the SLS hood is a redundant security measure to the ALS locking system. Based on the pictures, however, it appears that this particular gun was not fully seated into the holster. As such, the ALS system would not have been engaged, and the SLS hood would not have been able to close.

This case was not about a gun grab, so the retention devices don't necessarily come into play for their primary intended purpose, but if the officer had taken the time to properly engage them when holstering his gun it would have ensured that the gun was all the way in the holster and the trigger would have been covered. As it appears, the gun was being carried in an unsafe condition, and any number of firearms would have been susceptible to the ultimate outcome, not just the P320.

I agree that it would be best to have an independent entity conduct a thorough investigation of this incident...but that would have to be an entity with a high level of technical knowledge about the gun and the holster, and access to all the video and other data from the PD. From what I can tell so far, the explanation provided by Sig makes the most sense, but they only have access to the limited video footage that everybody else does, and not the gun, holster, officer, or other video leading up to the incident. Also, they clearly have motive to blame the officer rather than the gun.

Unfortunately it looks like this case is probably going to be directed by lawyers like most of the others, and every one of those cases that I've read so far has ultimately been about trying to argue civil liability rather than identifying the supposed technical defect with the gun. If they had concrete, mechanical evidence that the gun discharged without a trigger pull they would definitely be including it in their arguments to bolster their case, but so far I'm not seeing that. The standard of proof in a civil case is just the preponderance of the evidence (basically 51%), and everything I've seen so far has been courtroom games hoping they can tip the scales enough to get an award from a jury without having to actually demonstrate the mechanical failure of the gun.

What I'd really like to see is an independent review by an engineering entity not sponsored by Sig or any of the litigators, who's entire focus is the safety of the gun, and determining how it might fire without the trigger being pulled. Ideally, they'd have access to some of the actual firearms involved in the incidents where the guns supposedly discharged without the trigger being pulled, and the ability to compare the parts tolerances on those gun with manufacturer's specs, and potentially replicate the issue with both the involved guns as well as control samples that were not involved.

My pessimistic nature says we're not going to get that type of review, though, because all of these cases are more focused on assigning blame and making money than trying to identify and fix a problem, if it exists.

 

[Sigblitz]

I wonder if the department believes a fully holstered Sig fired without coming into contact with anything.
If they believe that, they'll have the gun inspected. They can use the guy in the Baldwin case.

 

[DadSmith]

What I find strange is the military has not had any "uncommanded discharge" that we know of.
If having an external safety is the reason than maybe law enforcement agencies need to start buying P320 with thumb safety.

 

[Creedmoor]

What I find strange is the military has not had any "uncommanded discharge" that we know of.
If having an external safety is the reason than maybe law enforcement agencies need to start buying P320 with thumb safety.

Is that not amazing or what?
It should be on the next "Ripleys Believe it or Not" special.

 

[DadSmith]

Is that not amazing or what?
It should be on the next "Ripleys Believe it or Not" special.

 

[Peacekeeper3073]

What I find strange is the military has not had any "uncommanded discharge" that we know of.
If having an external safety is the reason than maybe law enforcement agencies need to start buying P320 with thumb safety.

M17-M18 Issue

 

[Creedmoor]

M17-M18 Issue

So in essence a Service Bulletin.

Well, that appears to be a breakage issue after 5-6000 rounds of +P NATO 9mm ammo.
It says It CAN be unsafe if dropped with these broken parts.

I would say most of the 320 pistols in the world will never see 5-6000 rounds through them, much less with 5-6000 rds of +P ammo through them.

 

[Peacekeeper3073]

M17-M18 Issue

So in essence a Service Bulletin.

Well, that appears to be a breakage issue after 5-6000 rounds of +P NATO 9mm ammo.
It says It CAN be unsafe if dropped with these broken parts.

I would say most of the 320 pistols in the world will never see 5-6000 rounds through them, much less with 5-6000 rds of +P ammo through them.

Agreed. First report I've seen after the weapons have been issued and used for a while.