Is it ethical to hunt deer with a 223 or 5.56x45mm

[Pepi]

You can't in Indiana but they will let you use a 30cal like the M1 Carbine shoots

 

[Leo]

There are people in the deep south that depend on wild game for their protein year round. They have done that for generations. Government defined seasons label them as poachers. They have to be even more stealthy than usual. Small Deer get taken up close with head shots with a .22 rimfire during off season on private property. In that culture, even small ones are legit meat for the stew pot.

 

[Jaybird1980]

There is not much difference between a .243 75 grain and a .223 75 grain.

One is legal and the other is not. My issue is if you made .223 legal you can bet you will have people out there with 40 grainers.

So therefore I chose No on the survey. If there was an option of 62 grain and up then I would say it's ethical.

Shot placement is the major factor.

 

[two70]

My 6.5 CM with a nice muzzle brake kicks about the same as my 556 rifle. There’s plenty of vids on YouTube of people hunting with .223. I would recommend. Atleast 70 gr bullets and neck/headshot within 150 yards. Probably could go out further but at this range less room for error. This is private land of course. On public land .357 or .44 is the way to go imo.

Extra bullet weight is not a substitute for quality construction. Most of the .224 caliber bullets in the 70+ grain range are target bullets which are not suitable for hunting. The head/neck shot is not a very good idea for those most likely to be recoil shy and certainly not at extended range. An expert at short range, then sure, if you must.

 

[patience0830]

Shot placement trumps everything else. .17 HMR headshot will drop deer like a stone. ..22 WMR was, and may still be, the poacher's caliber of choice. .223 is legal some places and killing deer with heart/lung shots and bullets designed for hunting is not a problem. So. . . Ethical, yes. Legal here, no

 

[Refrigerator27]

Extra bullet weight is not a substitute for quality construction. Most of the .224 caliber bullets in the 70+ grain range are target bullets which are not suitable for hunting. The head/neck shot is not a very good idea for those most likely to be recoil shy and certainly not at extended range. An expert at short range, then sure, if you must.

Oh I 100% agree and I would never go for a neck shot or recommend it. I'm just saying it would drop it if it hit in the neck, my fault for the confusion.

 

[randyb]

Bullet construction, weight, length of barrel, etc. are part of the equation.
Skill of the shooter is another.
Where are the deer? Indiana or Georgia? The size of the average GA deer is tiny compared to IN deer. I have no problem with the .243 and up, but wouldn't fault the guy who knows what he is doing and if legal would use it with a heavy for caliber, well constructed bullet at modest range and an accurate rifle.

 

[rooster]

Depends on latitude, indiana, maybe. North Minnesota, definitely not. Arizona Cous deer, ya it’s most likely gonna be effective.

Point is a northern Minnesota whitetail can be a couple hundred pounds, indiana average weight is close to 200 on the hoof, but in the Deep South I’ve literally held up a deer by it’s back legs while someone else peeled it like a rabbit. That was a yearling just out of spots.

Point is a legal deer can range vastly in size.

 

[VulpesForge]

It’s probably not a good idea for most folks, which is why I wouldn’t recommend it for the average hunter. A more ballistically energetic round will make up for slightly imprecise hits on deer. 2400ish ft-lbs on a 30 caliber vs 1200ish ft-lbs on a 5.56 is substantial.

If you’re calm when a deer in is your sight picture, and you have the time with your rifle, ammo, and optics to be effective under stress you should be fine with 5.56. But most are not.

Be very comfortable with the ballistic trajectory of the actual rounds you’re hunting with, not just plinking with m193 and then shooting an animal with 64gr gold dot.

Be ethical, pick the right projectile, train a lot, and you can kill almost anything with a 5.56mm rifle!

I clicked the thread to post a combination of this and what Dadsmith said about the 44 mag and the relative energy of each. Whether or not the caliber is ethical to take game with is dependent on the shooter and their ability. At 7 yards the big three carry calibers have plenty of energy to take deer with a well placed shot and respect to ammunition choice. I personally have minute of pie plate accuracy off hand with my DW .357 and an 8 inch barrel out to around 70 yards. I would not recommend the same setup to old man Jenkins who suffers from chronic low blood sugar and tremors. I've passed on plenty of decent sized game because it was at the wrong angle or just a hair out of my comfort zone distance wise for the arms I had on me.

Imho in order to be an ethical hunter at all you really need to have a grasp of your skill set and limitations long before you set up a blind in the field. Respect the thing giving up its life so you can keep yours by making the time it suffers minimal.


Tldr; The question is nearly entirely subjective and dependent on individual skill, but I would definitely feel confident taking a deer with a .223/5.56.

 

[Tactically Fat]

It's already legal in several southern states... And apparently some western states as well.

For many practical purposes, white-tailed deer are generally people-sized.

That particular caliber works well on people out to about 500-600 yards "decently well" as we've learned since about 1965 or so.

 

[SpinDrift762]

Imho in order to be an ethical hunter at all you really need to have a grasp of your skill set and limitations long before you set up a blind in the field. Respect the thing giving up its life so you can keep yours by making the time it suffers minimal.

This is well said, hunting to kill animals with as little undue suffering as possible is the answer. KYL: know your limits and stay within them when taking game.

Watching a wounded deer drag it’s guts around because a hunter on the next ridge wanted to play sniper is the issue.

 

[Brad69]

5.56 is fine so are .243, 204 Ruger!

 

[walleyepw]

375 H&H Minimum caliber for deer just in case one comes along the size of a cape buffalo.
I recommend 22 lr with subsonics in most other instances.

 

[Ingomike]

The anti gunners say no one hunts with an AR15. Hmmm. How did they get that wrong? LOL

 

[AndreusMaximus]

The anti gunners say no one hunts with an AR15. Hmmm. How did they get that wrong? LOL

They've gotten so good at getting things wrong they're downright professionals by now...

 

[Hawkeye7br]

You can't in Indiana but they will let you use a 30cal like the M1 Carbine shoots

Are you sure about that? The 30 Carbine is deer legal in Indiana?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Are you sure about that? The 30 Carbine is deer legal in Indiana?

Rifle cartridges that are legal under this law for private land include, but are not limited to, the following:

• 6mm-06
• 6mm BR Remington
• 6mm PPC
• 6mm Remington
• .240 Weatherby
• .243 Winchester
• .243 Winchester Super Short Magnum
• .25 Remington
• .25-06 Remington
• .270 Winchester
• .30 Carbine
• .30 Herrett
• .30 Remington AR
• .30-06 Springfield
• .30-30 Winchester
• .30-40 Krag
• .300 AAC Blackout (.300 Whisper)
• .300 H &H Magnum
• .300 Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum
• .300 Savage
• .300 Weatherby Magnum
• .300 Winchester Magnum
• .300 Winchester Short Magnum
• .300 Remington Ultra Magnum
• .303 British
• .307 Winchester
• .308 Marlin
• .308 Winchester
• .32 Winchester SL
• .35 Remington
• .350 Legend
• .38-55 Winchester
• .444 Marlin
• .45-70 Government
• 6.5 Creedmoor
• 6.8 SPC
• 7.62x39mm
• 7.62x54mmR

I wondered too, but those are from DNR's website.

Indiana Deer Hunting Answers

Answers to common deer hunting questions about licenses, equipment, season and bag limits.

www.in.gov

 

[DoggyDaddy]

For public land...

Equipment on Public Land

Rifle cartridges for Public Lands (state and federal property) must meet the following requirements:

• Fire a bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger,
• Have a minimum case length of 1.16 inches, and
• Have a maximum case length of 1.8 inches

These cartridges are legal to use only during the deer firearms, youth, reduction zones from Nov. 13, 2021 - Jan. 31, 2022 (in zones where local ordinances allow the use of a firearm), and special antlerless seasons (where open).

Some cartridges legal for deer hunting on public land include the .350 Legend, .357 Magnum, .38-.40 Winchester, .41 Magnum, .41 Special, .44 Magnum, .44 Special, .44-.40 Winchester, .45 Colt, .454 Casull, .458 SOCOM, .475 Linebaugh, .480 Ruger, .50 Action Express, .500 S&W, .460 Smith & Wesson, .450 Bushmaster, and .50 Beowulf. Full metal jacketed bullets are illegal.

 

[Hawkeye7br]

Rifle cartridges that are legal under this law for private land include, but are not limited to, the following:

• 6mm-06
• 6mm BR Remington
• 6mm PPC
• 6mm Remington
• .240 Weatherby
• .243 Winchester
• .243 Winchester Super Short Magnum
• .25 Remington
• .25-06 Remington
• .270 Winchester
• .30 Carbine
• .30 Herrett
• .30 Remington AR
• .30-06 Springfield
• .30-30 Winchester
• .30-40 Krag
• .300 AAC Blackout (.300 Whisper)
• .300 H &H Magnum
• .300 Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum
• .300 Savage
• .300 Weatherby Magnum
• .300 Winchester Magnum
• .300 Winchester Short Magnum
• .300 Remington Ultra Magnum
• .303 British
• .307 Winchester
• .308 Marlin
• .308 Winchester
• .32 Winchester SL
• .35 Remington
• .350 Legend
• .38-55 Winchester
• .444 Marlin
• .45-70 Government
• 6.5 Creedmoor
• 6.8 SPC
• 7.62x39mm
• 7.62x54mmR

I wondered too, but those are from DNR's website.

Indiana Deer Hunting Answers

Answers to common deer hunting questions about licenses, equipment, season and bag limits.

www.in.gov

Wow, I stand corrected. I had always thought the 30 Carbine was not allowed. Thanks for the info.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Wow, I stand corrected. I had always thought the 30 Carbine was not allowed. Thanks for the info.

I think an M1 carbine would make an awesome little deer rifle for Indiana distances.