Is it ethical to hunt deer with a 223 or 5.56x45mm

[DadSmith]

I agree with these guys.

Just to let people know that your names will not be shown as to how you vote. You can also change your vote later if you change your mind. All opinions welcome.

 

[Bigtanker]

Basically what they said.

With the right ammo, reasonable range and the ability to hit exactly where you need to, I don't see an issue.

 

[Tombs]

I wouldn't personally do it unless you can reliably land a head shot.

With all of the chamberings available, why would you use something that weak for hunting? You can grab a 450 bushmaster upper for $220 from BCA.

 

[SpinDrift762]

It’s probably not a good idea for most folks, which is why I wouldn’t recommend it for the average hunter. A more ballistically energetic round will make up for slightly imprecise hits on deer. 2400ish ft-lbs on a 30 caliber vs 1200ish ft-lbs on a 5.56 is substantial.

If you’re calm when a deer in is your sight picture, and you have the time with your rifle, ammo, and optics to be effective under stress you should be fine with 5.56. But most are not.

Be very comfortable with the ballistic trajectory of the actual rounds you’re hunting with, not just plinking with m193 and then shooting an animal with 64gr gold dot.

Be ethical, pick the right projectile, train a lot, and you can kill almost anything with a 5.56mm rifle!

 

[Bigtanker]

With all of the chamberings available, why would you use something that weak for hunting? You can grab a 450 bushmaster upper for $220 from BCA.

450 is a whopper for recoil.

The 5.56 in an AR is perfect for a smaller, recoil sensitive person.

A gun writer in one of the mags I used to get set up an AR in 5.56 for his petite wife. They were in their 70's and she just couldn't do the recoil anymore.

I'll see if by chance I can dig up the story.

 

[Dean C.]

Personally out of a 16 inch barrel and loaded with say 75gr speer gold dot I don't think there would be any issue taking a white tail ethically with an AR-15 especially one set up with an LPVO.

 

[Bigtanker]

Just need to make sure the twist rate is correct.

 

[Dean C.]

Just need to make sure the twist rate is correct.

1:7 all the things!

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

1:7 all the things!

NO! God's twist!

 

[Dean C.]

NO! God's twist!

The OG 1:12?

 

[SpinDrift762]

The OG 1:12?

1/14… the real OG nothing like baaaaarely stabilized 55gr speed grenades

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

The OG 1:12?

No, silly! 1 in 8!

 

[Squid556]

Good thread, friend and I were just having a similar conversation tonight. We agreed that shot placement and bullet construction came before diameter.

I agree it can be done humanely. Especially with those Gold Dots mentioned above. However I personally dont have an issue with 24 cal being minimum. I kinda stand on both sides of the fence on this one.

Here is a treasure trove of information on 223 Rem game effectiveness. Scroll past history to the "performance" section.

.223 Remington

 

[clayshooter99]

Talk to the ranchers out west, they been killing big game and everything else for years with a 223. Myself, and my wife have probably harvested 25+ deer with a 223 in A-Bolt, X-bolt and AR's. With that said, I hunted about 5-6 years with 3 guys who shot 300 win Mag, 7mm Mag and 264 Mag that had many deer wounded and ran off. It is 100% the person behind the gun and bullet construction.

 

[DadSmith]

In Indiana you are allowed to use a 44 special. That is around 350-400 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle with most factory ammunition.

223 75gr speer gold dot has 2.5x that energy at 100yds than a 44 special. It has the same energy as a 240gr 44 magnum at 100yds as well.

I'm giving you an understanding of how powerful the 223 is compared to other calibers allowed by our state for deer hunting.

 

[two70]

Canadian sized whitetail may be a bit too big for a .223 to be ethical but Midwestern and especially Texas sized deer aren't. I've killed a 200+ lb. feral hog with a .223 so a deer of similar size shouldn't be a problem as long as one uses a good bullet and the shot placement is good as well. A relatively close (100 yards or less) lung shot with Barnes bullet should put most deer down quickly and leave a decent blood trail to make finding it easy. Still, if I were going to use or recommend a .22 caliber centerfire to hunt deer it would be a .22-250, .223 WSSM or similar. The performance increase would be well worth the slight increase in recoil.

 

[Expat]

I don't think so. From what I have seen, most people aren't as great a shot as they think they are to begin with. Then you put them out in the field away from their bench rest and perfect conditions, it declines even more. Next, you put a highly desired game animal in front of them and a lot of people get way too excited. So, can an expert safely and ethically take a deer. Sure. That just doesn't mean the average guy should try.

 

[jake blue]

I think the most ethical approach is to ask the deer what caliber he's carrying and use the same.

 

[1nderbeard]

Personally I wouldn't, but primarily because it's always been illegal here in IN and I don't have a 223/556. I've got several other rifles with more energy from which to choose.
On 450 recoil: I have a Ruger American in that caliber and I found it to be relatively manageable. Granted most of the time I shoot with a suppressor, which takes a lot of the sting out. But it was not as bad as some other rifles. Not nearly as bad as a 12 gauge with slugs.

 

[Refrigerator27]

My 6.5 CM with a nice muzzle brake kicks about the same as my 556 rifle. There’s plenty of vids on YouTube of people hunting with .223. I would recommend. Atleast 70 gr bullets and neck/headshot within 150 yards. Probably could go out further but at this range less room for error. This is private land of course. On public land .357 or .44 is the way to go imo.