Indianapolis Flock security camera opinions

[funeralweb]

Police get **** on for doing their jobs. Police get **** on for not doing their jobs.

I only **** in my toilet.
I see Flock as another level of Big Brother. But if it's here as an added tool in protecting and serving the public, then we need to change how we act upon what Flock detects.
There is zero "protect & serve" when innocent people are killed because of a belief that chasing perps is worth risking a bad outcome to achieve the unlikely objective that the perp will just pull over and give up because the light's red. The same goes for those unfortunate incidents when a LE life is lost when things go wrong during a pursuit. YOUR life is worth more than that.

 

[Route 45]

There is zero "protect & serve" when innocent people are killed because of a belief that chasing perps is worth risking a bad outcome to achieve the unlikely objective that the perp will just pull over and give up because the light's red. The same goes for those unfortunate incidents when a LE life is lost when things go wrong during a pursuit. YOUR life is worth more than that.

Rapists, robbers, thieves, child molesters, murderers and other assorted scumbags agree. Nobody should pursue them if they are in a car. It's just not worth it.

 

[firecadet613]

Saw these in a news article today.

 

[funeralweb]

Rapists, robbers, thieves, child molesters, murderers and other assorted scumbags agree. Nobody should pursue them if they are in a car. It's just not worth it.

I didn't expect to win friends or garner much (if any) public support for my outlook.
Whatever you do, don't use that radio to coordinate other units to maneuver tactically toward your objective before just lighting up and going full cowboy. I sure hope there's never an LE family that gets their right of way -and their lives- taken away by one of these scumbags.
Sadly, it would probably take even that scenario happening multiple times before someone on the line suggests rethinking SOP.
I keep my nose clean and support LE 100% but I STG, LE is sometimes their own worst enemy under the status quo.

 

[Route 45]

I didn't expect to win friends or garner much (if any) public support for my outlook.
Whatever you do, don't use that radio to coordinate other units to maneuver tactically toward your objective before just lighting up and going full cowboy. I sure hope there's never an LE family that gets their right of way -and their lives- taken away by one of these scumbags.
Sadly, it would probably take even that scenario happening multiple times before someone on the line suggests rethinking SOP.
I keep my nose clean and support LE 100% but I STG, LE is sometimes their own worst enemy under the status quo.

“Full cowboy,” eh? Yeah, we see where you place the blame. Personally, I’m all for deadly force being applied to known violent offenders going full scumbag in a vehicle. I’ve never herded any cows, though.

 

[Denny347]

Whatever you do, don't use that radio to coordinate other units to maneuver tactically toward your objective before just lighting up and going full cowboy.

So what does this look like? In your mind? "Maneuver tactically". I happen to teach Emergency Vehicle Operations to veteran officers as well as new recruits. Pursuit driving and high risk stops being being aspects of that. I'm also a PIT instructor. So what are you envisioning the officers should do that would reduce the likelihood of a pursuit?

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I only **** in my toilet.
I see Flock as another level of Big Brother. But if it's here as an added tool in protecting and serving the public, then we need to change how we act upon what Flock detects.
There is zero "protect & serve" when innocent people are killed because of a belief that chasing perps is worth risking a bad outcome to achieve the unlikely objective that the perp will just pull over and give up because the light's red. The same goes for those unfortunate incidents when a LE life is lost when things go wrong during a pursuit. YOUR life is worth more than that.

My department has rules on how we act after receiving a FLOCK alert, and we have a pursuit policy. Some departments don't have those rules. But the outcome of chases cannot be predicted by anyone, and police have no control over the actions of others.

 

[funeralweb]

“Full cowboy,” eh? Yeah, we see where you place the blame. Personally, I’m all for deadly force being applied to known violent offenders going full scumbag in a vehicle. I’ve never herded any cows, though.

Wasn't my loved ones in that other vehicle so I guess I shouldn't care and I don't work at Loose FH in Anderson so I don't have to pick pieces of safety glass out of not one but two bystanders all day after the coroner subjects them both to autopsies for dying in the wrong place at the wrong time because "whatever it takes" to bring in a fleeing felon. This time, the only deadly force was the inertia of a speeding truck colliding with a SUV.

 

[funeralweb]

I happen to teach Emergency Vehicle Operations to veteran officers as well as new recruits. Pursuit driving and high risk stops being being aspects of that. I'm also a PIT instructor. So what are you envisioning the officers should do that would reduce the likelihood of a pursuit?

I'd like to sit down have a face to face about that. Two people with an open mind. You share with me your doctrine.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I didn't expect to win friends or garner much (if any) public support for my outlook.
Whatever you do, don't use that radio to coordinate other units to maneuver tactically toward your objective before just lighting up and going full cowboy. I sure hope there's never an LE family that gets their right of way -and their lives- taken away by one of these scumbags.
Sadly, it would probably take even that scenario happening multiple times before someone on the line suggests rethinking SOP.
I keep my nose clean and support LE 100% but I STG, LE is sometimes their own worst enemy under the status quo.

Coordinating a response and "tactical maneuvering" before taking action happens all the time, but you never hear about it when nothing bad happens. And SOPs are constantly changing (at least for my department) to keep bad things from happening. But again, the police can't control the actions of others. We can have the best plan in place but the outcome always depends on the person(s) the plans were made to apprehend.

 

[KLB]

Wasn't my loved ones in that other vehicle so I guess I shouldn't care and I don't work at Loose FH in Anderson so I don't have to pick pieces of safety glass out of not one but two bystanders all day after the coroner subjects them both to autopsies for dying in the wrong place at the wrong time because "whatever it takes" to bring in a fleeing felon. This time, the only deadly force was the inertia of a speeding truck colliding with a SUV.

Similar argument can be made if they do not pursue and the bad guy goes and kills someone somewhere else.

 

[funeralweb]

“Full cowboy,” eh? Yeah, we see where you place the blame. Personally, I’m all for deadly force being applied to known violent offenders going full scumbag in a vehicle. I’ve never herded any cows, though.

So if they're running away on foot toward a crowd of people, would you fire upon them and risk hitting a law-abiding citizen? No, you would not because you cannot control that trajectory with 100% assurance of just hitting your intended target.

You can't control where that POS's vehicle will go or how far or how fast, either.

Apples to apples right there.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Brilliant!!!! Recognizing a person by their arse. My kind of camera.

My dog approves.

 

[Route 45]

So if they're running away on foot toward a crowd of people, would you fire upon them and risk hitting a law-abiding citizen? No, you would not because you cannot control that trajectory with 100% assurance of just hitting your intended target.

You can't control where that POS's vehicle will go or how far or how fast, either.

Apples to apples right there.

Arguing with you is a waste of time. You can't tell the difference between firing towards a crowd, which is in the officer's control, vs a fleeing felon causing mayhem, which is out of the officer's control. There are plenty of instances when the police chase is terminated and the scumbag crashes later. But I suppose that's the officer's fault as well.

I also wouldn't send you to the store for apples.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

There are plenty of instances when the police chase is terminated and the scumbag crashes later. But I suppose that's the officer's fault as well.

Yep, just happened on 465 on the southside a couple of days ago. Chase terminated, scumbag(s) got on 465, hit a minivan and required a search and shutting down the interstate. 3 apprehended, one still at large.

 

[Route 45]

Yep, just happened on 465 on the southside a couple of days ago. Chase terminated, scumbag(s) got on 465, hit a minivan and required a search and shutting down the interstate. 3 apprehended, one still at large.

Frickin' police, man.

 

[funeralweb]

You can't tell the difference between firing towards a crowd, which is in the officer's control, vs a fleeing felon causing mayhem, which is out of the officer's control.

There is no difference. I didn't realize we were arguing.

 

[Denny347]

You can't control where that POS's vehicle will go or how far or how fast, either.

Hey, I'm all for watching all these crazy drivers on the street drive by me in my patrol car while I smile and wave. The street take overs, the racing on the streets, the compete lack of due regard by these terrible drivers. I'll let them endanger their fellow drivers without a single ounce of police presence. They know that the police cannot/will not chase so they do whatever they want without consequence. This is how the citizens want it. The drivers know they can do whatever they want and there will be ZERO consequences. You shoot at people, get into a car and flee from police, carry on and enjoy your drive into freedom. If you NEVER stop, you will NEVER get arrested.

 

[Gabriel]

Whatever you do, don't use that radio to coordinate other units to maneuver tactically toward your objective before just lighting up and going full cowboy.

This is the kind of thing people that have no idea what they are talking about say.

 

[funeralweb]

This is the kind of thing people that have no idea what they are talking about say.

Yeah, y'all keep your ranks closed along with your minds. What's a little collateral damage when it helps achieve your objective, right?