If you’ve chosen not to take a Covid vaccine for whatever reason(s), it may be wise to reassess occasionally.

[nonobaddog]

COVID-19 Guideline, Part 1: Treatment and Management

IDSA has developed living, frequently updated evidence-based guidelines to support patients, clinicians and other health-care professionals in their decisions about treatment and management of patients with COVID-19 infection. Summarized here are the recommendations with comments related to the...

www.idsociety.org

Here's a summary of what infectious disease society is recommending. They discuss many options and give evidence why they support or recommend against particular therapies.

To me it makes little sense to not provide steroids to those who are at risk. But since the majority do not progress to severe disease, it's difficult to recommend that everyone take them. Studies did show harm if given to lower acuity patients.

What evidence do you have that we should be doing things differently? I'm genuinely curious. I hate that we have little to offer and now MAB likely is much less effective due to spike protein mutations.

And why monoclonal? Why not give a slurry of various antibodies?

Why aren't there any good studies, ones that don't get thrown out for various reasons, on ivermectin as a prophylactic?
I see studies where the patients are hospitalized and some even on respirators. Maybe that is too late to protect the patients from hospitalization since they are already there.

 

[PRasko]

COVID-19 Guideline, Part 1: Treatment and Management

IDSA has developed living, frequently updated evidence-based guidelines to support patients, clinicians and other health-care professionals in their decisions about treatment and management of patients with COVID-19 infection. Summarized here are the recommendations with comments related to the...

www.idsociety.org

Here's a summary of what infectious disease society is recommending. They discuss many options and give evidence why they support or recommend against particular therapies.

To me it makes little sense to not provide steroids to those who are at risk. But since the majority do not progress to severe disease, it's difficult to recommend that everyone take them. Studies did show harm if given to lower acuity patients.

What evidence do you have that we should be doing things differently? I'm genuinely curious. I hate that we have little to offer and now MAB likely is much less effective due to spike protein mutations.

And why monoclonal? Why not give a slurry of various antibodies?

Systemic Corticosteroids | COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines

Review results from studies evaluating systemic corticosteroids for the treatment of COVID-19.

www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov

“Multiple randomized trials indicate that systemic corticosteroid therapy improves clinical outcomes and reduces mortality in hospitalized patients with COVID-19 who require supplemental oxygen,1 presumably by mitigating the COVID-19-induced systemic inflammatory response that can lead to lung injury and multisystem organ dysfunction.”

Straight from the NIH website.

In multiple studies, it was proven that giving patients a combination of 3 drugs, Corticosterioids, blood thinner, and remdesivir reduced mortality rates in serious patients by 85+%.

That article also goes on to say…

”There are no data to support the use of systemic corticosteroids in nonhospitalized patients with COVID-19.”

So my question is, and always has been, why?

Why no preventative? Why no prophylactic?

Why wait until they are at the stage of needing hospitlization?

They have confirmed covid, they are symptomatic. Done.

Take these, report back in 2 weeks.

End of story.

Instead its, go home and pray. Come back when you’re ambulatory.

It’s a ******** system, and its painfully obvious its not working.

 

[PRasko]

As for the monoclonal antibodies? They are only being given after the real problem has arisen. They are used to treat the virus, but 90% of the problem isnt the virus, its the bodies reaction to the virus.

Cytokin storm. It’s whats causing 90% of hospitalizations. It’s our own bodies doing this by overreacting to a novel virus. This has been proven in dozens of studies.

 

[PRasko]

How COVID-19 induces cytokine storm with high mortality

The newly emerging coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) was first reported in Wuhan, China, but has rapidly spread all over the world. Some COVID-19 patients encounter a severe symptom ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[PRasko]

These findings have led to the hypothesis that the main cause of death of COVID-19 is ARDS with cytokine storms. Notably, intravascular coagulation is one of the causes of multiorgan injury, which is mainly mediated by inflammatory cytokines, in particular, IL-6 [36–38]. Patients exhibit multiorgan failure with coagulation abnormalities represented by lower platelets count and increased D-dimer, which are increasingly associated with poor prognosis and explain the microthrombi of the lungs, lower limbs, hands, brain, heart, liver, and kidneys [39–42]. Similar observations are seen in most patients with SARS-CoV infection who progressed to renal failure [2, 43]. Another reason of multiorgan failure is that SARS-CoV-2 infection in endothelial cells also causes cell death, which leads to vascular leakage and induces a cytopathic effect on airway epithelial cells [44].

Thus, it would seem that the disease severity or mortality comes from cytokine storms including ARDS triggered by viral lung infection, which accounts for multiorgan failure across the body [45]. These inflammatory mediators can also lead to vascular hyperpermeability and stimulate endothelial cells that express ACE2 on arteries and veins that together with viral particles cause systemic inflammation [46, 47].

 

[PRasko]

So, with all that said. Corticosterioids do what?

Well, they do 2 things. They are an anti-inflammatory, and they weaken your immune system.

Why is that a good thing? Well. It tells your immune system to calm the **** down and not attack your own body. It lets the antivirals work and do their job.

The anticoagulants are a preventative against blood clots. Hell, even aspirin has been proven to help against covid. Not everyone needs eliquis or heperin.

But either way. If a person is symptomatic, why not give prophylactics?

Why wait for them to get to the point of near death?

 

[nonobaddog]

So, with all that said. Corticosterioids do what?

Well, they do 2 things. They are an anti-inflammatory, and they weaken your immune system.

Why is that a good thing? Well. It tells your immune system to calm the **** down and not attack your own body. It lets the antivirals work and do their job.

The anticoagulants are a preventative against blood clots. Hell, even aspirin has been proven to help against covid. Not everyone needs eliquis or heperin.

But either way. If a person is symptomatic, why not give prophylactics?

Why wait for them to get to the point of near death?

It seems that the main reasons to delay COVID treatment are all from the government - CDC, NIH, Falsie...
This influences local hospital administrations to play along and enforce these policies regardless of how their physicians would like to treat.

 

[Jaybird1980]

It seems that the main reasons to delay COVID treatment are all from the government - CDC, NIH, Falsie...
This influences local hospital administrations to play along and enforce these policies regardless of how their physicians would like to treat.

Florida has made it easier for people to receive the Monoclonal Antibodies, and potentially keeping them out of hospitals. Other states could do this also, not sure if they're though.

Florida expands number of monoclonal antibody treatment sites: Here’s where to get it

The Florida Department of Health has included more monoclonal antibody treatment sites to expand access to this lifesaving treatment for COVID-19.

www.local10.com

 

[actaeon277]

Half of the patients I saw today were COVID. Admitted several, all unvaccinated. Had an 85yo vax lady with COVID and minimal symptoms, home she went. Had another 80+ year old unvax with COVID, minimal symptoms, home she went. Admitted several in their 50s.

Still have only admitted two vaccinated patients who had COVID, and those were both for dehydration. Both had signficant pre-existing conditions.

We have 24 beds in this Er, 14 of them are filled with inpatients who have no bed available upstairs or at the hospital we are trying to transfer them to. That means we get 10 beds to use for ER patients. Huge waiting room times. People sitting in chairs in hallways to get lacerations repaired and COVID tested.

Just what it is. A friend's hospital in Dayton is worse. His partner saw 22 on shift, 20 of them were in the waiting room. Many admitted from the waiting room. Using portable oxygen tanks out there. No monitoring. Occasionally they check and a tank is empty and no one knew it.

The system is understaffed and overhelmed. And flu is coming. And a GI bug is circulating. And Christmas just happened during a COVID surge.

Not looking forward to the next two weeks at work.

30 years and a month, and I have NEVER looked forward to work.
NEVER.

 

[hoosierdoc]

30 years and a month, and I have NEVER looked forward to work.
NEVER.

I used to a lot. I love what I do. Or... Used to. Now i love what I do, but not the system in which i have to do it

 

[hoosierdoc]

As for the monoclonal antibodies? They are only being given after the real problem has arisen. They are used to treat the virus, but 90% of the problem isnt the virus, its the bodies reaction to the virus.

Cytokin storm. It’s whats causing 90% of hospitalizations. It’s our own bodies doing this by overreacting to a novel virus. This has been proven in dozens of studies.

Right. Which is why earlier is better in MAB.

But again, steroids for all likely causes more downside. Should be limited to at risk populations. There is a huge movement to not treat strep throat with antibiotics because of the huge number of side effects and little benefit.

Doing things against society recommendations and then a bad outcome happens can be defined as breach of standard of care and basis for a lawsuit.

In the begining of COVID i wanted to know why we weren't giving steroids to these people. It made no sense not to. The smarty pants however said don't do it so we didn't. Then it said we should do it if sick. Fine, we'll do it.

The response to covid has been rife with error. And errors continue. Why do we not have a live attenuated virus vaccine yet?

 

[actaeon277]

I used to a lot. I love what I do. Or... Used to. Now i love what I do, but not the system in which i have to do it

payday is the only part I liked.
That, and retiring in 4 days.

 

[hoosierdoc]

payday is the only part I liked.
That, and retiring in 4 days.

Four days???? Congrats!

 

[actaeon277]

Four days???? Congrats!

Thank you.

 

[nonobaddog]

payday is the only part I liked.
That, and retiring in 4 days.

Wow - Yes - Congratulations!
You are gonna love it.

 

[oze]

The response to covid has been rife with error. And errors continue. Why do we not have a live attenuated virus vaccine yet?

My opinion only, but I believe that if, after trials, an attenuated virus vaccine became approved and widely available, the percentage of fully vaccinated people in the US would shortly exceed 90%. I know of 1 guy who would add to the number.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

 

[PRasko]

Right. Which is why earlier is better in MAB.

But again, steroids for all likely causes more downside. Should be limited to at risk populations. There is a huge movement to not treat strep throat with antibiotics because of the huge number of side effects and little benefit.

Doing things against society recommendations and then a bad outcome happens can be defined as breach of standard of care and basis for a lawsuit.

In the begining of COVID i wanted to know why we weren't giving steroids to these people. It made no sense not to. The smarty pants however said don't do it so we didn't. Then it said we should do it if sick. Fine, we'll do it.

The response to covid has been rife with error. And errors continue. Why do we not have a live attenuated virus vaccine yet?

I’ma give you a for instance of why we shouldn’t be gambling with peoples lives over 40$ in pills.

Take man A. Senior. Prior heart attacks. Obese. 50+ year smoker. Lung cancer. Chemo/immunotherapy/radiation. Currently has radiation pnuemonitis. Being treated for that with dexamethasone, 0.5 mg twice daily. Contracts covid. Tests positive 6 times over 2 weeks. Not vaccinated.

Never has more then a sniffle. No cough. 1 day fever that never exceeded 100.3. Recovers fine.

Then you have man B. Late 40’s. Healthy. Skinny. Active. No known history of smoking. No known health problems. He’s sent home after positive test. Ends up in the hospital 9 days later and dies 6 hours after being put on a ventilator.

So I ask… Who and how do we decide is “at risk”?

Why are we gambling with peoples lives over pills that can be manufactured and not in short supply?

 

[hoosierdoc]

My opinion only, but I believe that if, after trials, an attenuated virus vaccine became approved and widely available, the percentage of fully vaccinated people in the US would shortly exceed 90%. I know of 1 guy who would add to the number.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

If they would eliminate the mandate i think a lot more would get vaccinated also

 

[Bugzilla]

Why are we gambling with peoples lives over pills that can be manufactured and not in short supply?

 

[hoosierdoc]

Another argument is since it's the immune system that kills you, people with terrible immune systems may not be as risk as we think they are.