I'm all for people setting their own standards for selling their own guns. However, I am interested in what evidence there is that guns acquired from private sellers at gun shows by people without a LTCH who could not pass a background check are used in crimes to any great extent.
-
Be sure to read this post! Beware of scammers. https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/classifieds-new-online-payment-guidelines-rules-paypal-venmo-zelle-etc.511734/
If I Was A Felon
- Thread starter jaybird_123
- Start date
The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana
Member Benefits:
Fewer Ads! Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership Discuss anti-gun legislation Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses Discover free outdoor shooting areas View up to date on firearm-related events Share photos & video with other members ...and so much more!
Member Benefits:
I'm all for people setting their own standards for selling their own guns. However, I am interested in what evidence there is that guns acquired from private sellers at gun shows by people without a LTCH who could not pass a background check are used in crimes to any great extent.
They HAD to be bought at gun shows? Emphasis added.
The vast majority of legal gun owners and those that could legally own a gun but do not - are not LTCH holders. There is no legal requirement to have a permission slip to purchase a gun. Further, an LTCH at best is a snapshot in time - it was valid at the moment the research was complete and issuance was green-lighted. I can produce my LTCH, but you don't know if I am a convicted felon or not.
You're the seller, you can require what you want. You could require all buyers to wear bumblebee suits for all I care.
[apostrophes added]
Do you really feel that way? You'd be fine if Congress enacts a feckless law that add $25 to cost of every transaction, eliminates FTF transfers and puts all transaction in a book? Really?
Did this statement really get ignored by everyone else?
Somewhere in this mess it was stated that UBC's would stop anyone from illegally acquiring a firearm. I'd take a more pragmatic approach and argue that it will stop and/or impede a very small percentage. But the cost of such a draconian law would be too great. Ultimately not worth the costs (inconvenience, tax payer costs, time lost, lost of liberty, etc.) As Kirk noted, the general assembly agreed with this long ago.
It was also stated that felons don't hang out at gun shows. This argument is based on an stereotype. Remember, once a felon, always a felon (well, almost). Up until 2000 Chuck Colson was a felony and I think many, many people would have trusted their kids alone with him (maybe not the atheists).
The "ask to see the LTCH" tricky is a bit kludgy. It's not hard to print one up, you can't test its validity, and a lot of people don't have one.
The "get a cop to run their name" is even lamer. First you have to get a name, then a cop, then time to ...
It was also stated that felons don't hang out at gun shows. This argument is based on an stereotype. Remember, once a felon, always a felon (well, almost). Up until 2000 Chuck Colson was a felony and I think many, many people would have trusted their kids alone with him (maybe not the atheists).
The "ask to see the LTCH" tricky is a bit kludgy. It's not hard to print one up, you can't test its validity, and a lot of people don't have one.
The "get a cop to run their name" is even lamer. First you have to get a name, then a cop, then time to ...
What in the world makes you think "Gun Shows" are the likely venue for Felons to purchase firearms? In my younger years I frequented a few (ok a lot of) taverns of less than 5 star ratings. I couldn't count the number of firearms that were purchased in that venue. Remember the old adage "birds of a feather flock together"? Criminals are often known to associate with other known felons, gang members always know where to procure firearms. Many of these firearms have not been though a legal FFL in many years, either stolen from citizens, gun shops or other businesses. Some may have been procured legally or gotten though family ties, but entered the "black market" long ago.
I would wager a tidy sum that I could visit a few bars in most cities or towns, flash a bit of cash and let it be known I wanted to purchase a firearm and that within 24 hours I could have several - none of which would be purchased through an FFL and a large percentage probably previously owned by people not legal to possess firearms. I seriously doubt many felons purchase firearms at Gun Shows, I have spoke to ATF agents at some of these shows, and have no doubt there are agents at most shows looking for felon purchases. Why would any felon purchase a firearm there knowing the ATF and police are likely present, when guns are so easily available from other sources?
"""You're the seller, you can require what you want. You could require all buyers to wear bumblebee suits for all I care."""
I think your're on to something here!!
What self-respecting felon, prefelon, bad guy, would be caught dead in a bumblebee suit! And anyone who would don one should be considered too unstable to own a gun. Win/Win
I would opt for a "Tinkerbelle" suit to weed out the honey lovers...
I think your're on to something here!!
What self-respecting felon, prefelon, bad guy, would be caught dead in a bumblebee suit! And anyone who would don one should be considered too unstable to own a gun. Win/Win
I would opt for a "Tinkerbelle" suit to weed out the honey lovers...
Bunnykid68
Grandmaster
Why would an improper person not be dead or in jail?
Well, I may have been one of the "suspected felons" that you refused to deal with! I have approached several people carrying firearms for sale at gun shows with intent to make an offer if the price was right. Oh, I do have my LTCH and FFL-03 so you probably wouldn't have had any problems later! As I have stated before (several times), I don't believe any "FELON", though I don't credit them with much intelligence, would try to purchase a firearm at a Gun show, with both Police and ATF agents know to be present at all shows! Felons have much safer venues to obtain firearms - by theft, purchasing at bars, trading dope or stolen merchandise for a gun, buying from other felons (probably at previous mentioned bars) or getting from family members.
By the way I normally won't buy from people that require me to show my LTCH, I know many people (including family members who have guns brought back from WW2), that don't have LTCH's. I refuse to help gun sellers that want to add more requirements than the current laws require. The current "gun control" laws have proven to be completely ineffective, why should we, as proponents of the 2nd amendment, add more useless regulations? READ and UNDERSTAND the current laws involved with lawful sales of firearms by individuals, once you understand your lack of liability, you may want to reconsider your requirements for selling a firearm.
Really? What good does showing a LTCH do? I did a quick google search and found this........
Criminals counterfit everything....from handbags to sports tickets. Any 5 year old could probably reproduce this in about 15 minutes with photoshop and print it out on the pretty pink paper. You think if a criminal wants a gun....they can't find a way to get one........all this will do is hurt the honest law abiding citizen.....not everyone has a LTCH but still like to shoot guns.
for the most part, "LEO buddies" can't run names willie nille!
[apostrophes added]
Do you really feel that way? You'd be fine if Congress enacts a feckless law that add $25 to cost of every transaction, eliminates FTF transfers and puts all transaction in a book? Really?
Did this statement really get ignored by everyone else?
I was going to reply to that by looking up something I had typed during the federal UBC debate last yr (so I didn't have to re-type out stuff), then I realized it was the same person I was replying to back then. He wants to invent more crimes for criminals to commit for the purpose of racking up charges, regardless if it makes the world safer.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/general-firearms-discussion/269365-gun-owners-vs-haters.html
IMO, if we want stronger sentences for those who commit violent crimes, we do it by increasing the sentencing for the crime, not by inventing a host of other illegal activites that burdon good honest folks. I'd rather completely end the FFL/NICS/serial-number system and make mandatory minimum sentences for murder, armed robbery, etc that actually detered crime and keep people incarcerated longer to reduce the impact of repeat offenders... I don't care if a felon buys a gun in a gun shop or gun show just like I don't care if a felon buys his tools for B&E at home depot or lowes. The vendor of the tool is NOT responsible for its use. Same reason I despise that buying good cold medicine is now a hassle.
-rvb
Last edited:
Fordtough25
Grandmaster
Can't a felon still purchase a black powder revolver or rifle legally anyways? We do not need any more laws, we need less.
quoted for emphasis.
Anyone remember G Gordon Liddy talking about "his wife's" gun collection?
G. Gordon Liddy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Liddy was not a violent criminal. It's a shame folks like him loose gun rights, even if he'd done some bad (but non-violent) things, IMO.
-rvb
Depends on the felony, IIRC anyone deemed a "Serious Violent Felon" cannot even have cap and ball or antique firearms.
I am fully aware of my lack of liability regarding the sale of firearms. But you aren't aware of my personal situations that bring me to this decision.. an investigation of a persons involvement into a criminal matter (regardless of the outcome of that investigation) can result in a revocation of a cleared individuals security clearance. Working on classified projects is not a "right" and you have no "rights" when it comes to such matter. My career is worth more to me than getting sand in the vagina of someone I don't know over my refusal to barter with them on the sale of a firearm.
yepthatsme
Master
By accepting or approving of increased back ground checks or any other gun control methods placed on the innocent, law abiding citizen to prevent felons from obtaining firearms, you are placing all of the responsibility on the innocent. This demonstrates that our liberties are dependant upon the actions of the lawless. It is their actions that dictate the amount or type of liberties the law abiding can have. I am not willing to allow my liberties to be taken from me due to the behavior of the criminals and I refuse to be held responsible for their actions.
Call me old fashioned, but that is my opinion for what it is worth.
Call me old fashioned, but that is my opinion for what it is worth.
Really? What good does showing a LTCH do? I did a quick google search and found this........ View attachment 27932 Criminals counterfit everything....from handbags to sports tickets. Any 5 year old could probably reproduce this in about 15 minutes with photoshop and print it out on the pretty pink paper. You think if a criminal wants a gun....they can't find a way to get one........all this will do is hurt the honest law abiding citizen.....not everyone has a LTCH but still like to shoot guns.
Um, Slider, counterfeiting is illegal. That's what stop them.
If I was felon? I’ll have to imagine,
So much to do, it's hard to fathom
Burglary, robbery, theft, arson and such
Guns? Well, that shouldn’t take much.
I’ll head right down to a local gun show,
Stolen cash in hand, my money to blow,
Private sellers galore, no questions asked,
A felons playground, it’s quite a blast.
But wandering the aisles, it soon becomes clear,
These sellers, they think too much of their gear.
Well used Glocks and XD’s, over 600 dollars,
Guys selling who aren’t what we’d ever call scholars
A Taurus and Rock Island, each for a grand,
Ruger P series pistols priced like they were banned.
An AR pistol, “Hey that just may work!”
‘Til I saw the tag: “he must think I’m a jerk.”
I came here a felon, bent on getting a gun,
But the sellers, their prices sent me on the run,
I’m a law breaker, true, one for the books,
But today I met a my match in these crooks.
So much to do, it's hard to fathom
Burglary, robbery, theft, arson and such
Guns? Well, that shouldn’t take much.
I’ll head right down to a local gun show,
Stolen cash in hand, my money to blow,
Private sellers galore, no questions asked,
A felons playground, it’s quite a blast.
But wandering the aisles, it soon becomes clear,
These sellers, they think too much of their gear.
Well used Glocks and XD’s, over 600 dollars,
Guys selling who aren’t what we’d ever call scholars
A Taurus and Rock Island, each for a grand,
Ruger P series pistols priced like they were banned.
An AR pistol, “Hey that just may work!”
‘Til I saw the tag: “he must think I’m a jerk.”
I came here a felon, bent on getting a gun,
But the sellers, their prices sent me on the run,
I’m a law breaker, true, one for the books,
But today I met a my match in these crooks.
Site Supporter
Members online
- Jndturner317
- mbkintner
- MrHank
- Titanium_Frost
- Dookie
- flint stonez
- indiucky
- crookcountygo
- pokersamurai
- dougha5
- KoopaKGB
- manifest destiny
- Alamo
- klausm
- AndyF
- medavis428@
- edwea
- JBLee
- K9stang
- PGRChaplain
- steveIU
- Bluehazemay
- DoggyDaddy
- krvincen
- bloodandgutsmurphy
- loudgroove
- caulfieldian
- Reale1741
- Popeye Thee Sailor
- red_zr24x4
- OutdoorDad
- ZurokSlayer7X9
- profjeremy
- Glock22
- Mr.Softball
- COOPADUP
- bowhunter_1978
- VERT
- Brad69
- indydrummer
- JSJamboree
- Hatin Since 87
- ks4197
- Blazer90
- JAL
- akethan
- Mice54
- maxipum
- draftyranger
- bking1340
